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Criticism to Changes in Pricing

I need to voice my opinion on this, and I know this will garner response, so I'm choosing to create a new topic so not to flood the Feedback Thread and people's game stream.

This is… bad. It may sound awesome, but no it is bad. In economic terms this is reactor going critical bad.

Like, horribly bad and exposes a lot of problems inherent in the very culture of Sindome itself that it's almost a requirement that you ignore, but I'm expecting all of this to be staff scrubbed and or shouted down, so why even bother explaining?

But I actually have hope that somehow Sindome might get better because I do enjoy playing it, so I do post this out of hope that something may change.

So...

I no longer have faith in Slither's ability to actually know what he is doing in terms of being able to stop the current economic death spiral Sindome is in, as this update comes off as just randomly cutting the prices on items with the hopes it'll do something, kicking the can down the road and expecting the player culture to ignore growing problems.

You're not treating the root of the problem, you're just treating the symptoms while exacerbating the disease. And when the problems grow worse later, it'll just be the player's fault for not having a good time again.

As I said while I'd love to explain why, I just do not have the energy to, as the culture of Sindome is that Sindome can do no wrong, and if there's a problem it's the player's fault. I'm already expecting a wave of criticism from the player base for saying this, and that's not even starting with staff response. Anything approaching the idea of actual current game design being at fault and the conversation is immediately locked, scrubbed and forgotten about. And until the game community is capable of owning up to the idea that yes, Slither is human and can make bad design choices, the game will continue on it's path.

But of course I don't know what I'm talking about and the experiences of the oldbies is somehow more important than other newer player's experiences or insights, so fuck the person who has been playing a fixer every day for three years straight, he doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to how money works within Sindome.

A fixer who just watched all potential future biz just shrink to the point of not even wanting to bother playing anymore.

And Heaven forbid I actually address topics like how the actual meta is convincing Slither there's a problem when there really isn't.

Proof? 85% percent of the items that the prices were adjusted are sitting currently in the market. Which means that not a single one of you bitching about the prices ever consulted a fixer for market prices, but instead just assumed that your perception of said items prices being too expensive were the correct ones and crying to Daddy Slither produces immediate results.

That 35% cut is more than Apollo could ever hope to achieve in the markets by the way, if you're curious. Slither just gave you all the skills of Apollo in terms of wrecking havoc on the economy, so who needs a fixer anymore?

Things really weren't that expensive, it really did come down to rarity and what a fixer could do with the money they had. But apparently you don't have the time to wait a day or two for the fixer to actually do their jobs. Xo3 isn't that expensive if a Fixer can actually find it. It's just never able to be found because because of rarity because the Seven level PVP characters are hoarding them. And the response by Slither that some players aren't actually deserving of carrying the required top tier weapons has echoes of Animal Farm's "All players are equal, but some are more equal than others." which means these items like ceramic katanas will continue to be hoarded while staff tells you that you have the McDonald's ceramic katanas at home.

But yeah, I only have one viewpoint of the game so my insight is worthless. Whatever.

It makes you wonder why the loudest opponents to increasing the UE caps are the oldbies who are secure in their position at the top and any change would upset the delicate PVP balance of stagnation while always aiming down... maybe because as it's been pointed out even another 300 UE will greatly shift the end game meta and they might actually lose lose in PVP.

Hence why Felibombs will never exist despite there probably being at least five separate bug reports on those darn busted robot control wires.

This is the death knell of your game's economy. Staff is making knee jerk populist decisions to appease the masses while simultaneously catering to a very small class of loud oligarch players. This is only going to make your game stagnate and implode faster. Meanwhile their policy of completely gutting and destroying vital game infrastructure with a pinky promise of replacing them with something better down the road has caused the economy and the systems that supported the common players to grind to a halt, resulting in nobody having any money or being able to have a good time.

Why does this absolutely batshit stupid plan sound so familiar? This isn't learn from the past this is turn on the fucking TV right now.

Things haven't become more expensive. There never was a change to prices to make them go up. Nobody can point to "Protek raise 40% in prices" in the game change log to necessitate the need for a price cut. Slither just dismantled chyen faucets that the game's economy were dependent on. And Slither's design choices and design philosophy of remove but never replace may have over a period of time actually become the cause of all the problems the game is facing.

And until the community can accept this, it will continue to fight amongst itself in a feeding frenzy of who is really at fault for nobody having a good time because there's no money left.

Maybe there was never a time that this was the case, but I think what's really ruining the game for me is people taking to the forums with their doctorate theses on why the game is bad and who is to blame. I can't muster the will to address the misguided points here, but I can say that I think Sindome has shifted from an IC PVP game to an OOC PVP game, where we all try and fix our problems by OOCly complaining about them until staff feels compelled to make them go away.

That may sound hypocritical considering I do support these changes which were received after years of complaining by various players, but the economy was being kept on life support by a broken faucet previously, whereas now it has significantly less income sources.

I'm definitely one of the oldbies, though I have played here for some years on and off, and I loved this change. I finally, after maybe 7 years, feel safe to get my favorite pieces of chrome I never dared to get.

Also I'm pretty sure Slither didn't cut the prices on his own decision. It sounded like it's been discussed among staff for quite a while, though I don't really know anything beyond what's said on the forums and OOC chat so I'm mainly guessing.

I'm definitely not one of the oldbies, I mean. I've at most played a midbie.
There is really too much expressed on this opening barrage to have a comprehensive discussion. I recognize you have a lot of opinions, Risikio, and they are valid to express, but if you want to have a focused discussion we need brevity and facts.
The premise of this post doesn't make any sense. Price reductions were something a majority of the playerbase wanted and all Slither did was listen presumably after having talked it over with the rest of staff. This whole argument comes off as incredibly bad faith and inconsiderate of the opinions of everyone who actually wanted this change.

This part though:

"It makes you wonder why the loudest opponents to increasing the UE caps are the oldbies who are secure in their position at the top and any change would upset the delicate PVP balance of stagnation while always aiming down… maybe because as it's been pointed out even another 300 UE will greatly shift the end game meta and they might actually lose lose in PVP."

If the same "oldbies" had uncapped UE for as long as they've been here you'd be staring down the barrel of a gun that has not hundreds more UE than you, but thousands more. It would only worsen the situation if you're really that distrusting of the game's veteran characters and their intentions.

Oddly… I can't think of a single "oldbie" in the game right now that is deliberately targeting newer players/characters for the purpose of keeping them down, or in line, or whatever. I don't need examples or proof, or whatever. I'm simply saying that I don't see it. I actually... usually see the opposite.
Oldbies are awful and should be purged.

I've started a new thread which summarizes the recent changes and a brief OOC-chat vetted review. I invite anyone with interesting opinions or feedback to share them there. Ideally, we can focus purely on the economical impacts and ripples thereof.

https://sindome.org/bgbb/game-discussion/game-problems/the-economy-is-in-shambles–-688/

The fact that I read maybe one line of the OP and knew who the author was before I scrolled to the bottom of it is telling.

I'm not going to bother reading all of it, as you even admitted you don't care to put forth facts and relevant points and just wanted to complain, but here is a fact: a vast majority of the player base old and new, either playing max UE characters or new rerolls, have begged for price reductions. A means for combat characters who are the only ones mechanically pushing PvP at great risk to themselves and their investments to recoup, for med tech characters to afford their gear and be more versatile earlier on, for rippers to open their doors to their services, for chemists to cook sooner, for people to DO things and enjoy the game with less pressure or anxiety or playing the waiting game.

If you have a problem with that because you feel like your own game play is being negatively impacted by this change, fine, but something had to give and Slither is just listening to his players. This overhaul also only just came out so time is needed to see the effect it's going to have on things, posting a giant wall of whine and saying you no longer have faith in him isn't going to lead to anything productive.

I disagree with the premise because the money supply shrunk when freight and macguffins were removed, so prices reflecting that is consistent with a deflating economy. In real life a smaller money supply and deflationary prices are pretty bad but Sindome isn't subject to those forces so I actually think smaller total money supply and lower fixed prices is pretty safe.

We basically can't enter deflationary spiral because our incomes only really change deliberately (removing income systems) and aren't subject to market pressures, so while I felt prices became too high in comparison to what players were making with reasonable time investments before, I think we're in a much better place now and it's worth seeing how things play out.

Before the previous price reduction in chrome, I was discouraged from getting an eyepatch in game because people might think I had a cybereye and kill me for it. Ever since that change, I've seen people with cybereyes out in the open. My hope is that this price reduction will have a similar positive change and turn this into a real cyberpunk universe.
That said I made that thread arguing the price of everything was too high largely on the basis of access to gameplay rather than like, sound economic principles which I am largely ignorant of. My argument essentially was that the design of a MOO (Mud, Object-Oriented) meant that a lot of gameplay had become orphaned in tools that were largely not accessible.

It's possible that tools and gear all being more common and accessible actually creates a worst economic situation in ways I don't foresee, I just personally don't care about that outcome. For me having interesting technical and archetypal gameplay is the priority and whether the fixer economy is healthy or not just isn't. It's possible fixing became much more difficult, I just saw that as worth it.

I'm the one who started the push for changes to freight and shitbergs. If you want to be upset with someone staff side for starting that conversation, you can be angry with me. It wasn't Slither.

Hoarding of the most elite weapons isn't a thing that happens. The top of the top endgame weapons are all under rarity, most sitting at around 50%. Getting an elite weapon can be done by making connections IC and learning how to get one and having the goods to afford it.

We'll see how the price changes play out over the next couple months and the impact it'll have across the game. If there's severe disruption to the fixer archetype, please document and leave constructive feedback in notes or on the board. But please limit IC information shared.

Thanks!

I am sympathetic to characters who were carrying a large stock of items for a long time and took a bath on their investment, but just to highlight what Slither said re: recent purchases:

If you are a fixer, or own a shop, who purchased gear IN THE LAST MONTH that was impacted by these changes, please put in a service request asking to speak with me and we can talk about a one time make good to cover the difference in price costs due to the reduction. This does not apply to gear purchased outside of a month, or if you're not a fixer / shop owner. I'm only doing this for people who's role it is to buy/sell stuff.