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Fine Tune Previous Combat Changes?

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I've been going back through all of the feature posts and reading feedback as well, and two particular changes came to my attention that I wanted to bring attention to, either because they don't seem to have been fine tuned, or because I simply don't understand the reasoning.

1. JUMPING IN COMBAT

No more jumping off/across things just because you stop attacking first while still being attack by someone else.

By Slither at Oct 7, 2020 6:28 PM

There was quite a bit of back and forth on the subject of whether you should be able to flee off of roofs in the feedback thread from Oct '20, but it doesn't seem to have been followed up on.

Just as jumping off roofs was a huge avenue for abuse, so is camping no-exit or door access exit rooftops with a combat specialized character. Particularly if that character is adequately equipped. This isn't just theory. It was already done.

I feel like this deserves some attention. My suggestion is to simply allow normal use of the regular rooftop commands (jump across

edge, jump off edge), but instead of simply checking if the character is in combat, call the object/function associated with flee to perform the necessary checks and either fail the action or succeed with appropriate messaging based on that calculation.

2. DARKNESS NERF TO COMBAT

If you can't see in a room that's dark, you now take massive combat penalties to attacking.

By MirageGM at Mar 6, 2022 10:46 AM

I simply don't understand this. Why does this only penalize attacking, and not both attacking and defending? Could additional complexity have been added to account for weapon type? Weapon length? Room size? Skill level?

There was no discussion about this change in the feedback thread, so I don't know if discussion from players took place in another thread or on xooc.

This seems like too black and white of a change. I realize Mirage is gone and cannot defend it, but I assume any code/balance change was accompanied by internal discussion and consent of other staff before induction.

By Quotient at Jun 20, 2024, 2:20 PM | 0
I did some brief testing after this change was implemented, but couldn't really determine if it was working correctly or not because there's only so long you can stand in the dark with three dogs failing attack rolls before it feels like inviting catastrophe.

It came in with other updates relating to dark rooms, the idea was to basically make darkness more meaningful and gameplay relevant but there is so few dark rooms that I don't think most players even noticed the updates. I suspected darkvision attacks might be still incorrectly taking penalties in dark rooms due to the way the patch notes were worded but was never in a position to test it.

I believe defending wasn't nerfed because both being nerfed would have resulted in no net change of outcomes.

By 0x1mm at Jun 20, 2024, 8:35 PM | 0
One thing that struck me as odd / broken about the dark room changes is that, IIRC, a character in a dark room cannot look / see into a lighted room.

That makes zero sense. If there is a light source in a room, you can see what is going on in the room.

By Hek at Jun 21, 2024, 1:13 PM | 0
I hate that you can see a light source from another room. If you end up suddenly in darkness in a place you've never been, you're basically moving around blind. It'd be nice to at least have some sense of guidance. Even if it's the way you came from.

By Reganza at Jun 21, 2024, 4:39 PM | 0
Obviously, I meant can't.
By Reganza at Jun 21, 2024, 4:40 PM | 0
This is a complete and total aside but also buff non-visual ways of seeing. Let people physically feel their way around, know what a room looks like generally if they -did- see it very recently but the lights just went off (like your flashlight just died on you), or you have access to echolocation.
By AdamBlue9000 at Jun 23, 2024, 11:09 AM | 0
I completely agree that jumping roofs in combat should not be blanket blocked. In many cases, there is no way to flee to disengage then jump. Not enough exits if there are any at all.

I would love it if jumping off a roof or jumping across to another roof while in combat did a flee check in terms of stats/skills then, if you managed, you make the usual roof jumping checks. I think this would be a wonderful improvement!

By Grey0 at Jul 6, 2024, 6:25 AM | 0
Yes, the concern when the change was made is what syntax would be used. Combining the logic into the existing commands makes the most sense from a programmatic and logic perspective.

I've been thinking about the dark room attack penalty, and unless I'm missing something, it feels like in certain situations, this gives a significant advantage to firearms users. I won't elaborate, but I'm sure if I could puzzle it out, others can too.

What if the penalty incurred depended upon the skill being used? Attack penalty for firearms. Defense for melee. Personally I'd feel more confident swinging a sledgehammer around wildly in the dark than hoping to block with it. Similarly, the idea of shooting a trajectory dependent weapon wildly without any idea what I'm aiming at sounds like it would be ineffective at best. Thoughts?

By Quotient at Jul 6, 2024, 2:08 PM | 0
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