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Isolation and Chaos.
Four months of struggle, no end in sight.

I've read a few posts from recent days and weeks discussing the UE Grind, how players feel isolated & unable to move forward, and I wanted to throw my own two cents in here. Feeling the need to share some of what I've seen since coming to SD, vent some frustrations, and follow some advice I was given to talk things out.

The honeymoon period with SD is over and I've reached the four-month "quit or not" period, and I'm on the edge as we speak. I've seen extremely limited successes IC, and have fallen into a rut - basically consisting of working my IC job, spending the majority of my time involved in limited social/romance RP, and otherwise waiting for the next death, terror attack, or other chaotic shoe to drop; sending my character in another direction completely outside of my control. Some advice I was given recently is to consider SD a "Murder Simulator", and to always expect the hidden blade at any moment. To either become okay with losing weeks or months of progress at the drop of a hat, or decide the game just isn't for me.

That choice is immensely difficult, because I've spent four months of my life developing a few very important IC friendships and laying the foundation for others. The Grind for my daily IC job is just that - very little being gained for weeks or months of time, with limited interactions with coworkers and an inability to really affect any change or direction as a whole. The UE Grind is another issue; spending days and weeks slowly working toward a goal that will take me at least another six months to achieve. All the while, the game feels like a constant assault both IC and OOC. I'm logging in daily to do the same few things, see the same few people, do the same basic job duties, and always waiting for the next hammer to drop. The next murder to happen. The next thing to get stolen. The next paycheck. I've tended to help other close friends IC out with their own goals by sacrificing my own money and time so they're not stuck in the same grind, but this just puts me further behind.

I guess what I'm saying is, SD doesn't feel *Fun* anymore. It's a power fantasy *for others*. In-game, my PC feels utterly powerless. Faceless. Worthless. I matter to a few other PCs, which is the only thing that's kept me from disappearing up until now. I don't feel as-if I have any actual character agency to pursue anything, and I'm losing any motivation to *actually try* because I have no support, very few actual resources, and everyone outside of my small circle is either indifferent toward me at least or wants to see me dead at worst. Being murdered, having my character victimized by others for personal gain, is not fun. Being told to "figure out how to deal with it or don't." isn't fun, and screams of Stockholm syndrome. In the end, in my view, I'm being told to be okay with being powerless, be okay with grinding for the next year, be okay losing over & over until I somehow manage to be okay… Or to leave the site completely.

That. Is not fun.

I got involved in SD not as a power fantasy, but to explore my character's successes and failures with friends I'd make a long the way. Where I'm at now is, there's way more failures and successes, the friendships I've developed are important but if I disappeared tomorrow I'd just be seen as a coward who couldn't hack it. I am constantly reminded, IG, that I'm one of a million faceless bakas nobody cares about. I'm constantly reminded that I can trust no-one, and I'm on my own.

So I ask you... At what point is this supposed to be fun? When is getting punched, kicked, stabbed, thrown off a building, or blown up ever fun for anyone except the one doing it to you? When is spending months or years dragging yourself through the mud fun? Why keep going at all?

I am not someone, IRL, who plays the victim. In-fact, I am in an IRL job where I protect others from becoming victims. It is very difficult for me to, IC, see myself as a victim and learn to accept it, but it's sorta where I'm at. Yes, I am experiencing bleed, but after months of it, you probably would too.

This game is too real sometimes, because it reminds me how powerless I am IRL too. And that is truly not fun. It's why I work in a job where if I died protecting someone, at least I'd be worth something.

I guess I'm asking if any of us really matter. Do I matter? Or is this the best it'll ever be?

It is typical for many players to experience a slump after playing for several months, because a new character can be played passively in a way a character entering the middle part of its life cannot. A new character is driven by seeking money, a clone, an apartment, a job and on and on, and as those things are secured many players will remain passively engaged looking for the next motivation to be brought to them.

It will, of course, almost never arrive. It will be largely up to players themselves to drive their own stories, and up to their understanding of the game, its cultural (both between players and between staff), its politics (both IC and OOC) and its systems in order to have the means to develop the agency they may want. I would not get too attached to the idea that agency or power is something that can be grinded for given enough time. There is no lack of arrested developments sitting around with loads of UE and hefty bank accounts, waiting for the game to begin.

So, what I'm hearing is, if you don't start taking control of your own story, other people will do it for you. Considering the game's tendency to veer into oncoming traffic, that is not a pleasant proposition.

I understand that UE & Money are tools in a toolbox, and that SD rewards thinking outside the box and relying on social cleverness and other less 'mechanical' tools. That being said, the isolation & unfamiliarity with the game still keeps me, as a new player, entirely lost on what to do, what to attempt, or where to go next. I come from a Play-By-Post RP background where 'player agency' was a simple "I do/don't want to write that story' decision. Coordination OOC was considered a vital part of the puzzle, to have some ideas of a character's wants, desires, and what they were willing to lose.

The problem I'm having is just that; I'm at the mercy of other characters who have more money, more power, more SP, more influence, and my support system IG is extremely limited. I'm feeling boxed in, and… Well, like I said, that I don't really matter.

I'm not asking for somebody to care. I'm sad that the game fosters such apathy both IC & OOC that it's either "Work it out yourself or booth."

Again, just a bit too real.

I'm at the mercy of other characters who have more money, more power, more SP, more influence…

In a sense. It's really going to depend on what you're doing, what you're trying to accomplish, and very often who you're trying to accomplish it with (if anyone). There are areas of the game that are extremely competitive because everyone wants a piece of them (either because they're profitable or especially fun or impart status), but there are also areas where no one is really going to care what you do and would not bother trying to oppose anyone unless it's out of some personal enmity.

If you find things too competitive there is nothing wrong with trying to get out of the rat race towards profit and influence and power and instead just finding a fun niche to inhabit on your own terms.

Do you feel your character is being targeted fairly? That sounds horrible.
I would also really caution against treating the game like an extended circle of friends, without adding a whole lot of emotional guardrails and keeping a very broad perspective. Forming friendships with characters, that you feel personally invested in as a person, is going to be like giving fate a hostage. In some sense every minor threat becomes an existential one because it may imperil not just some (ultimately meaningless) game resource, but in fact your very social connections. This can also cause players to force themselves to continue playing even when they don't want to be, which is going to be horrible for their mental health.

This doesn't mean you have to be callous and uncaring an unengaged socially though. Rather just know that if some character dies or something horrible happens to them, or if your character dies, or whatever, there is always new and old connections to be made and remade. I've had players whose characters I've had as both friends and enemies, then not roleplayed with for a year, only to have some new dynamic form as we circled back into the same orbits. Attachments are fleeting, but there are always new ones to be made.

When you're new the circle you're in feels like the whole world, and it's only later you realize you were standing in a corner facing a wall. That said it is not a forgiving game and it never really becomes easy or carefree, and being good at it is no virtue. If you don't enjoy it there's no sense forcing it.

Also - whoever is giving you that advice that you need to be a lone wolf. Ignore them. You may not be able to fully trust people but there are so many missed opportunities with that mindset.
This is a common sentiment amongst new players, you bleed a bit, you get into doomer mode, you get frustrated, etc. It happens sometimes.

I would recommend taking some time off the game or just don't login every single day, its just a game and it will still be here when you are feeling better.

The problem I'm having is just that; I'm at the mercy of other characters who have more money, more power, more SP, more influence, and my support system IG is extremely limited. I'm feeling boxed in, and… Well, like I said, that I don't really matter."

What you are describing here are pretty much some of the basic themes of the cyberpunk genre, the little guy against seemingly insurmountable odds, just trying to survive.

So the game is doing its job, and your character should feel this way and express it IC, but when you the player IRL feel this way, that's not good.

That being said, you don't need lots of UE or money to make waves, just good ideas and even better RP. My biggest SD Ws (like the kids say these days) were achieved by nothing more than 'social engineering', no money, no UE, just wits and RP.

If you are looking for a 'power fantasy', you are really going to have to work for it and even when you are the 'top dog' you'll never be more powerful than the corporations and that's kind of the point in the end.

I think this issue is recurrent in players who just aren't very used to the cyberpunk theme. I would encourage you to read this: http://www.sindome.org/help/cyberpunk/

Being oppressed, hopeless, and against all the odds, is part of the cyberpunk theme, and it's by design that you feel this way. The game will reward you when you embrace the theme and you become willing to cross moral lines, break the rules, and do anything necessary to get ahead. Sindome is not a happy place.

It's a dog eat dog world, extremely exaggerated to the point where it's suffocating. You barely have any personal space left. Why would you be a protagonist with plot armor in a game world with 85 million people (and +50 active players)?. It is up to you at which point do you decide to say, fuck it, and become a punk yourself?

That doesn't match any of the media I've absorbed for Cyberpunk things. I know I probably need to take in some older items.

However, I don't think it's helpful to tell someone who is feeling isolated and being negatively affected by it that it's the way the game is supposed to be.

I think, ideally, for most people at least, Sindome is a game about perseverance. If you've found your character in a spot where they just feel hopeless and faceless, that's pretty normal. For most people, the only way to change that is through suffering. Most (but not always all) characters in positions of serious power have gone through a lot to get there, they didn't show up and assume the position of CEO of Evil Incorporated or become Corrupty McJudgy all in a day. They get there from a mixture of luck, knowhow, and mostly stubbornness.

Every setback is an opportunity to write how your character manages to persevere despite a stacked deck and many enemies. And then, one day, your character may be the one looking down and causing grief to the faceless masses, as a testament to the corrupting nature of power and to the morally bankrupt world made by unchecked capitalist endeavors.

That doesn't match any of the media I've absorbed for Cyberpunk things.

William Gibson is really the archetype here (although shout out to Phillip K Dick for being even more depressing, A Scanner Darkly might be the bleakest novel ever if Blood Meridian didn't exist.)

Neuromancer begins with the protagonist Henry Case at the absolute lowest moment in his life, having not only been driven out of his career as a hacker but having had the ability to interface with the Matrix literally burned out of him forever. Johnny Mnemonic (in some ways the draft of what would become Neuromancer) has Johnny's very carefully built life torn completely apart for reasons completely unrelated to him at all, something he rages about. Pattern Recognition (which I would consider the dividing line between cyberpunk and post-cyberpunk literature) more or less has a fruitless pursuit by the protagonist Cayce Pollard that never really resolves at all, at least not in the way she wanted.

It carries on in other classic cyberpunk media as well. The Matrix begins where the action kicks off for Neo, but until that point he has lived almost 40 years in a life that felt trapped and aimless and fake. eXistenZ has… I'm not even sure what was going on there but it definitely ended badly for someone. Blade Runner goes from dreary to even more dreary and 2049 is an absolutely crushing story from the perspective of the protagonist K. Robocop literally begins with Alex Murphy dying and the remake is somehow even more existentially horrifying.

It's likewise true in a lot of neo-cyberpunk. 2077 begins with a major life low for V (either having just left their clan, abandoned their hope for a new life in Atlanta, or being exiled and cast out of Arasaka). Many characters in the game are also effectively dead from the moment V meets them, and pretty much everyone ends up in a worse place in the end with a few major exceptions. Upgrade is Robocop but even worse for the protagonist which is really saying something. Dredd is kind of like the main modern counterpoint here but if you take the perspective of everyone who isn't Dredd and Anderson, the story is a nightmare.

Of course I'm being a little selective here, there are also examples of films and novels that have triumphs for the protagonists (even Neuromancer is essentially a very early prequel to the utopian AI ascended society of Iain M Banks' The Culture), and many of these examples only start with their characters at their lowest points and don't revel in them. Bad moments are ultimately just contrasts to highlight the good parts of the narrative, but it can be sometimes necessary to have very low lows in the genre. In many ways the focus on the lows allows for small comforts and small triumphs to feel like major victories where they might be everyday banality in another genre. Does K's date with Joi have the same impact if it wasn't an island of intimacy in an ocean of loneliness? Or Henry's quiet moments with Molly? Even Robocop which is a bit silly and camp has gentler moments that only really work because everything else is so bloody.

I guess this is a very long way of saying, it will be harsh and dark at times, that won't mean it will be all the time and just about every player will remember highs and lows both. The key is just not to become overwhelmed or suffocated by the lows but understand them as colour and contrasts for which to appreciate the rest.

So. There was this scene in the new Fallout series. i don't know if you watched it or not, so I'll give a brief summary. The viewpoint character for the segment had been bullied by this other dude for quite a while. Eventually there's a point in the story where he can ask him why and get an honest answer.

The bully's response was along the lines of. "I used to get bullied for a long time, until one day I just pointed at you and said 'hey, why don't we get that guy?' and so we started fucking with him. I Wish he lived long enough to find his own person to point at."

Not a direct quote but the point is the same. This game is essentially that. And if you are trying to do your own thing, you are making yourself a target for those groups to point at you. And this is how the game is meant to be.

You are meant to latch on to the existing power until you can become strong enough to attract your own minions. If you are doing your own thing, you are essentially swimming upstream, except you aint a trout.

I also wanna point out that it can be hard to see your own mistakes if your friends wont call you out on them.

You are meant to latch on to the existing power until you can become strong enough to attract your own minions. If you are doing your own thing, you are essentially swimming upstream, except you aint a trout.

In my opinion that's one way to play the game. Maybe even a popular one and likely easier for a lot of new players. But it's not the only one and I applaud any who choose to do things different.

Just be aware that there are players who feel that this is how things are supposed to be and will try and push you back into the lanes they are familiar with. As SmokePotion said, it can be like swimming up stream.

It's also my opinion that this finger pointing, it's your turn to get the pains, mentality sometimes carries over to OOC as well. Some players, myself as well on occasion, have this urge to hold onto pain points because they suffered through them so the next guy should too. It's how it is. It's how it SHOULD be. It's a difficult mindset to shake or even spot.

You can play Sindome without attracting too much negative attention but it involves some social knowhow that's easier to grasp if you already have experience with the game. Most people will leave you alone especially if they're in positions of power because there's often not much to gain from harassing a random newbie.

If you do end up in conflict with someone more powerful than you they are probably willing to give you and out even if at first it seems like they're intent on destroying you. A character can come off as completely unreasonable but the player behind them tends to have a heart.

I disagree with playing the game based around 'minions' though. I think like Grey0 mentioned, while you can play the game like that it's not the only way. You will always have to be able to navigate the politics of the dome but if you turn toward gathering a group of followers that's also a way for you to end up with problems if someone thinks you're trying to hold contacts close to you.

There's a larger argument to be hard about that topic but I'll keep it vague as the specifics aren't relevant to this thread.

I see what I see.