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NPC's that have things you can't take.

So, Slither kinda recently mentioned that NPC's are used for item scarcity. And it pinged some stuff in my memory. But instead of flooding that post, I thought it could use it's own post (again, prolly)

Not only are we only allowed to take 1 decent item off an NPC per whole week. Sometimes, these butt-munches don't even drop the stuff you kill them for. Putting you at huge risk for… nothing.

Example: You kill an NPC for their mask, they don't drop it. But some corpie on green who does nothing but watch red cams all day, sees you and pings the snakes. Suddenly you are dealing with snakes, but you got nothing out of it. The risk-reward is all risk, no reward.

example: You kill a corpie npc for their rolex. You make a mad dash to the mix, with a judge callin' for your arrest. But you got nothing, because that watch wont come off.

These sorta things are absolutely bad for the game. Especially if they are used for item scarcity. But even not... What's even the point of these NPC's then? remove them, free up resources for the game, or let us mug them for their stuff.

These NPCs exist for several reasons. Here are two of the bigger ones.

1. To add ambiance and lessen small worlding. If you see the same 5 snakes walking around every day, you would be right to assume that there are only 5 snakes. Despite it being a huge gang with tons of members that we can't reasonably have on screen all at the same time.

2. For backup. Lots of factions (not just gangs) have NPCs that spawn, walk around, and are available to automatically (via the Dispatcher) or manually (via characters that can boss faction NPCs around) respond when shit goes down.

3. To provide a lesser challenge than full time faction members. These NPCs are typically on the lower end of the stats/skill range for a group.

I think the point I made about scarcity was misconstrued. These NPCs don't exist to manage item scarcity. We don't let you endlessly farm the autospawning memento NPCs because these NPCs don't persist. They spawn, exist for a bit, then unspawn. If you kill one and steal their gear, another NPC will still spawn with the same gear a few minutes later.

We don't want people farming NPCs for gear. If you get gear from combat with an NPC it should be a side bonus on top of the RP or goal you achieved through that combat. Not the reason for the combat (in the majority of cases anyway).

This isn't a game for farming mobs, or endlessly killing NPCs that autospawn. And we reinforce that by not giving you gear for killing throwaway NPCs.

SmokePotion appears to be specifically talking about things like non-ganger momentos who have put on masks, hoods, ponchos, etc. Or appear to be wearing a really expensive item that someone might take a risk for, only to find out that they acted for nothing.

I'd be surprised if these were contributing to item scarcity though. They appear to just adopt a description rather than actually holding an item.

That said, the fact that newer players have to "fuck around and find out" that they can't take these things from an NPC is unfortunate.

@SmokePotion

I have dealt with the exact 'rolex' experience that you used in your example. I feel your pain and frustration.

That said, just because one character cannot get anything of 'value' from a particular NPC, does not mean that other characters cannot.

@Slither and @Quotient touched upon the subject of farming in different ways.

I will admit that I was guilty to approaching the game with a farming / MUD based mentality when I started playing. In my defense, I started playing MUDs in the 1990s. Farming IS what you do in those games. In that regard, Sindome will always have to deal with some level of new players treating a MOO like a MUD.

I think the FAFO aspect of dealing with mementos that can't be looted is about the best that the game can do, from a coded perspective. After the second or third time of failing to loot a memento, most players are going to figure it out. Or get told by staff to look at 'help farming'.

IMO - everyone "should" (personal opinion here) play a gang character sooner or later. So many of the systems in the game make a lot more sense once a player had worked through, what I would call, 'low level gang content'.

It would be cool to have some greeters adopt a jaded persona of, "I don't have time to teach you the ropes. Go find a gang who has time to deal with you. If you can make yourself valuable to a street gang, you can make yourself valuable to practically anyone else in Withmore." or a similar narrative.

Quotient is correct. I'm talking about the people with masks, hoods, rolex's, ect. Not the 'random gangers'

I love the random gangers. They are a great addition that wasn't in the game the last time I played (AFAIR).

I rather dislike the others. I know they sorta add the the whole 'shroud lottery' thing. Hiding people moving or standing in the road in shrouds. But it feels really really bad to go 'mug' them, and come out of it empty handed. or worse, in some crap.

Have had a couple times where someone with a 'poncho' on got rolled up on, and turned out to be an NPC. The confusion of "you can't take this from this person" is definitely weird, especially there.

Watching a cam where someone dons a digi-poncho over a poncho before walking somewhere you're worried about, then suspiciously gluing them all together feels like an oversight more than a feature.

I had a bad experience with this the other day.

My character had an IC reason to want a specific piece of gear from an NPC. This was not a random farming scenario. There was plenty of justification for my character to want what they wanted.

I xhelped and asked staff, "My character wants this piece of gear from X type of NPC. Are they going to be able to take it from them, or is there a coded limitation in place?"

The answer that I got to FOIC was, in my opinion, not a good response.

Telling someone to FOIC whether an OOCly imposed, coded limitation, is there breaks immersion.

One on hand, we are told to not small world. Treat NPCs as you would a PC. Expect to be seen. Expect repercussions.

If you buy into all of that, then just willy nilly attacking an NPC to figure out if they are wearing magical clothing or not flies in the face of all the advice "Ooops, sorry you bled out in the gutter, buddy. The MOO Deities told me that I had to FOIC. So, now you're not going home to your family and your kids are going to starve."

Granted, there should be some level of NEW players having to figure these things out. If for no reason other than for the player to learn, from a code / interface perspective, what the error messages look like from trying to loot the unlootable.