@undo_ue
Why is the stat buy so archaic?

Just for clarity. I'm just stating a fact of game design and trying to smooth one of those 'feel bads' so newer players don't end up quitting. I been here 7 months (and off and on for 20 years) Ya'll stuck with me.

also, i'd say just look at your text box before you hit enter, the final 'confirmation' button. but i suppose doubling keystrokes for levelling stats, if it's going to stop the unlikely that a player quits the game entirely over one UE, could help the game… I'm not even sure I want to worry myself over someone who lets 1 single UE somehow utterly demolish the game for them, because who knows how they're even going to handle any other slight inconvenience.

if you've been around 20 years, you'll understand 1 ue on one stat means nothing, with how much you get at max UE.

This statement alone makes it sound like min-maxing is exactly the goal.

Maybe it does mean something. What something means to someone, in my experience, tends to be a fairly personal thing. And maybe they want to min-max. There's nothing against it in the rules and comes with downsides (though I think those could always be enhanced).

I think I understand the intended messages but caring about where every point of UE goes or wanting to min-max a character really seems to get a lot of shade I don't fully understand. Further, I think the notion that this kind of thing can FEEL bad is perfectly valid and it's something I suspect might hit new players harder as us more experienced players have learned to be extremely vigilant about UE allocation to accommodate the system as it stands.

I'd be open to adjusting the stat UE allocation system to something that more closely resembles what we have for skills. Or an undo command that can only impact the single most recent UE expenditure and nothing more. Maybe both.

One last random thought… Sure. Selecting the wrong stat to increase might only take 1 UE early on but as a character grows this mistake could cost a lot more UE. Easily ten or more. One can still make the 'drop in a bucket' argument but when a resource is finite, I also prefer to manage it as well as I can. Every drop.

Before I became an admin I used to track every stat and skill raise in a notepad. I wasn't trying to min max, we didn't even have a UE cap at the time. I just wanted a better idea of how my progression was affecting my characters abilities, and I enjoyed puzzling out how the system worked. Back then we were a lot more restrictive around whatwvas okay to talk about and reliable game provided information was very limited. I enjoyed puzzling it out and then having an idea of how long it might take me to raise a stat to a certain level. Back then the stat levels were essentially just synonyms and it was unclear what the progression was.

Someone who isn't an oldbie who knows, try to order:

Sprightly, Dexterous, Lithe, Agile

It could go in any order!

I don't think there is anything wrong with keeping your own tracker for your own purposes.

As for the idea, I dunno if it's needed. There are no bad stats. Everyone uses every stat all the time. A raise in a stat you didn't intend isn't as annoying as having a single point in a skill you didn't want and now have on your character sheet.

If I need to start hitting confirm for putting in 40 repeats of UE, fuck that, that's stupid. Now, if we adjusted stat increases that work like skill increases, that would be a smarter idea than the undo button.

Why don't we have a system that works like skill increases, where it asks how many raises you want to put in, then confirm it? In fact, I'll make a thread for it.

I prefer the other to this. Undoing UE is not an easy fix. I don't think we should have an undo option, because it would not be needed if the other fix I suggested was put in. It would eliminate this issue. It's not a matter of "i was here first" it's a matter of which is better.

Well, it would be for like, within 5 minutes of putting the ue into something… BUT. Now sitting here and thinking. Your right.

People could abuse this to test stat increases, and work on gaming out the system. Your option is better.

I feel confident saying that, unless they happened to be sitting on a major visible breakpoint, there is no player that can parse the distinction of a single substat raise unless they were doing like statistical analysis of hundreds or thousands of skill checks.

The major dev issue I see with having forget for skills or undo or whichever form something like this could take, would be having a history of stat raises for each given stat being saved to a character's record so there wasn't double-dipping of the randomness of substats being assigned and the randomness of them being unassigned both.

I think more character retraining options are basically inevitable, it's just a question of landing on an implementation that everyone admin side disagrees on the least.