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  • Disable Shout When Strangled
  • Please release my throat, I need to yell for help.

Disable Shout When Strangled
Please release my throat, I need to yell for help.

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It bugs me when someone shouts for help while being strangled. If you've ever been choked out, it's very hard to yell, even when it's the carotids. I personally, would like it if the shout command was disabled when getting throttled and am curious if others feel the same.
By Varolokkur at Sep 2, 2019, 6:01 PM | 0
+1
By JMo at Sep 2, 2019, 6:02 PM | 0
+1 unless there's a theme/balance/RP reason for this.
By ynk at Sep 2, 2019, 6:03 PM | 0
If they fall below a certain fatigue and/or condition score, sure. Otherwise disabling it right off the start makes grapple more powerful than it can be at the moment and gives the victim one less course of option to try to fight back.
By crashdown at Sep 2, 2019, 6:03 PM | 0
This is already a thing.
By Vera at Sep 2, 2019, 6:05 PM | 0
Politely disagree. Choking's already powerful in my opinion.
By Crooknose at Sep 2, 2019, 6:05 PM | 0
Is it already a thing? I remember one time my char was strangling someone to death and they started screaming at the top of their lungs, which makes absolutely no sense. Choking is powerful, but there are stat investments you can make to prevent getting into those situations.
By Necronex666 at Sep 2, 2019, 6:10 PM | 0
Dislike. -1

Choking / Grappling is already powerful enough.

By Hek at Sep 2, 2019, 6:16 PM | 0
I'm making this suggestion as someone who has been strangled more than not. This is a somewhat suicidal thing I'm asking for but I realized when it happened to me that it really broke immersion. While it gives a nasty bonus to grappling it just feels right as an RP experience.
By Varolokkur at Sep 2, 2019, 6:45 PM | 0
I’m pretty sure when you strangle someone and they talk or shout it uses the fatigue code to garble their speech. I could be wrong because it has been a while since I last strangled a hooker.
By Grizzly666 at Sep 2, 2019, 7:09 PM | 0
Nah Griz, the garble doesn't apply to shouts for some reason. I'm actually not sure if that's a bug or a feature.
By Necronex666 at Sep 2, 2019, 7:12 PM | 0
Huh. I agree that it should prevent speech. You still have SIC, unless you are in a deadZone, then it is just great planning/bad luck. Like my last trip to Vegas…
By Grizzly666 at Sep 2, 2019, 7:48 PM | 0
would make a lot of sense if this happened a few rounds after starting to be strangled.
By Rangerkrauser at Sep 2, 2019, 7:48 PM | 0
Just apply the fatigue garble code to shouting when you get to that point and prevent people from hearing "…" two rooms over. I thought it already did.

But you shouldn't get immediately silenced. Strangling is already good enough. You shouldn't be able to completely kick the legs out from under someone in a single round of combat.

By Vera at Sep 2, 2019, 8:04 PM | 0
Just do what I do. Strangle people from the comfort of your bedroom when signal disappears.
By Stiza13 at Sep 2, 2019, 8:08 PM | 0
Just do what I do. Strangle people from the comfort of your bedroom when signal disappears.
By Stiza13 at Sep 2, 2019, 8:08 PM | 0
…with a laggy internet connection so that you double plus good strangle them twice
By Hek at Sep 2, 2019, 8:53 PM | 0
This would give a pretty massive boost to grapple compared to combat, and it already can be intensely powerful and without a counter in some cases.
By Marleen at Sep 2, 2019, 10:15 PM | 0
Also if you can grapple someone strong enough to strangle them, can probably just carry them into someplace secluded enough that they can shout till kingdom come.
By Marleen at Sep 2, 2019, 10:29 PM | 0
Strongly disagree with this from a perspective of game balance.

Being strangled to death is already boring enough without one of two things you as a player can do whilst strangled being auto cancelled (struggle is done automatically so I'm not counting that as a option).

By MongOfTheWeek at Sep 3, 2019, 2:47 AM | 0
For realistic purposes, I agree.

I think if the choking has gone on long enough, you shouldn't even be able to talk. I understand people with balance and such, but most of the time, a shout still won't save you, so what's the big deal?

But that's my opinion, no offense to anyone. I couldn't bother reading every single reply as this is the first time I've seen the thread.

By Evie at Sep 3, 2019, 2:58 AM | 0
I literally had shout save my PC while getting dragged and then strangled, joined with other means taken along the way - all of which would fail otherwise. And this would give a massive buff to strangling vs any other combat choice. While I am all in for self-integrity, balance is pretty darn important, and strangling is already a very strong move.
By Marleen at Sep 3, 2019, 3:01 AM | 0
To me, this is a terrible idea. Not only is it a balancing issue, but thematically, doing the shouting and no one coming is far far more gruesome than it would be to just sit there and to wait for it to finish.
By Qurion2 at Sep 3, 2019, 3:01 AM | 0
To me, this is a terrible idea. Not only is it a balancing issue, but thematically, doing the shouting and no one coming is far far more gruesome than it would be to just sit there and to wait for it to finish.
By Qurion2 at Sep 3, 2019, 3:01 AM | 0
Maybe make strangling less easy to pull off then? I haven't ever managed to strangle a character, I've been strangled on multiple characters but I always found it weird and incredibly unrealistic that you're able to shout and even just talk until the very point you pass out. If you can't breathe, you can't speak.
By Evie at Sep 3, 2019, 3:02 AM | 0
People use SIC in instances where they can't talk, if they need help. That's why people pull them off into SIC-less places, which makes sense. You can always keep resisting, of course you'll have little to no chance if you're not a combat based character. The game isn't supposed to be fair, but when you vat out you got a chance to investigate why and how you died, like everyone else.

If it's okay to shout while you're being strangled, you're kind of ignoring how vocal cords work and when they don't. Kind of overruling biology, or maybe it's psychics, I suck at science. But it's just ridiculous in my opinion.

By Evie at Sep 3, 2019, 3:04 AM | 0
If you want IC/realism explanation, if someone strangles your IRL and not hard/well enough to stop the blood flow to the brain (if that's the case, you would pass out much faster than it usually takes ICly, and lack of air has little to do with it) then you can find times to catch a breath, shout, speak while resisting against it.

So when you manage to free some space, you take a breath and use that moment to scream bloody murder in the middle of it.

Problem with removing that is that strangle + drag into no sic means that you now can do whatever you want with the victim and not fear anyone finding out. While every other way of combat has more risks.

By Marleen at Sep 3, 2019, 3:07 AM | 0
Like I said, if you're combat based, you probably have a good chance to fight back. But if you're not, tough luck, should've hired a bodyguard or not gone into that trap people planned for hours to set up.
By Evie at Sep 3, 2019, 3:12 AM | 0
Planned hours to set up?

It is more often used to just charge at a person, drag into non SIC zone and rob.

That is not hours.

By Qurion2 at Sep 3, 2019, 3:13 AM | 0
+1

For realism

and the argument is what, so it doesn't make it as hard to kill someone? If you can grab someone and strangle them it promotes RP, because if you take you time and can do more stuff while killing them, not to mention it's a pretty slow way to kill someone, almost every other method is much faster.

By Jotun at Sep 3, 2019, 3:13 AM | 0
Most often I've gotten into such a situation, it was because someone was after me. Not to mug, but because of a job or otherwise.
By Evie at Sep 3, 2019, 3:14 AM | 0
Not so easy Evie, you can be build for combat and strangled without a chance to do anything as far as I understand. When you managed to grapple someone, and have solid hold, simply take the time to drag them away first, into some remote place. Or maybe ambush them closer to that remote place, instead of having to haul them half-across mix.
By Marleen at Sep 3, 2019, 3:15 AM | 0
The 'counter' to grappling as far as I'm aware, is 'dodge'. Either that, or be strong enough to pull yourself free. The person grappling you probably spent a lot of UE to be able to pull it off, so it's only fair when you maybe didn't put anything into such stats/skills, but you'd be good in other instances.

I also gotta say @Jotun makes a good point. Strangling can be an incredibly slow way to kill someone, that also puts pressure on the killer, that someone will notice.

By Evie at Sep 3, 2019, 3:17 AM | 0
I don’t see the issue if it runs on fatigue. I’ve choked people in game to keep them from running away and I swear when I released them their speech is garbled.

Grapple already has balances. You pass checks to initiate and checks to hold on. the balance could easily be after a given amount of rounds and your endurance depending, your speech becomes garbled. So instead of “Halllp” they hear “Unnnnnnnf” and can then decide if it is a call to help or if someone is banging a cat splice nearby. A boring choke death, no sic signal, being able to be choked out to begin with all fall into the “too bad” category to me because that is just your opponents proper planning or UE investment over yours.

By Grizzly666 at Sep 3, 2019, 3:17 AM | 0
If you find yourself unable to avoid or break out of a grapple then the grappler is likely far enough beyond you in combat ability that they could own you regardless. The days of the min/maxed grappler dominating everyone are long gone. All based on my personal experiences. Your's might be different.
By Grey0 at Sep 3, 2019, 3:18 AM | 0
It certainly happens Evie. It certainly happens.
By Jotun at Sep 3, 2019, 3:18 AM | 0
@Grizzly666

+1

By Evie at Sep 3, 2019, 3:19 AM | 0
@grizz I've been aware of someone being choked very recently and screaming the entire time, I'm obviously not going to say more about it but it is definitely not a thing, not in every situation anyway.
By Jotun at Sep 3, 2019, 3:19 AM | 0
@Evie, not that easy, there are many circumstances around.

And I am with @grizzly, just make sure it runs on fatigue, just like talking does (if it doesn't already) as choking certainly takes your wind out and garbles talking.

By Marleen at Sep 3, 2019, 3:20 AM | 0
Ya it's a direct result of fatigue, and someone can be choked completely out without being to that level of fatigue, even by someone much stronger than them. Maybe that's the aspect of it to change.

By Jotun at Sep 3, 2019, 3:21 AM | 0
Likely. Though I wouldn't make it completely silent, just garbled, mangled but still noises. Think of it as you kicking and slithering in someones hold, kicking empty cans and broken glass to generate any and all noise while getting strangled to death.
By Marleen at Sep 3, 2019, 3:23 AM | 0
My 2 chy. While you are being actively chocked you shouldn't be able to shout, however if you can -gasp for air- but not escape then you can for that combat round.
By Jotun at Sep 3, 2019, 3:25 AM | 0
I do still believe that the closer you are to passing out, the less you'll be able to do. I haven't had a personal real life experience, but as far as I'm aware from movies and the like, strangling someone to unconsciousness is pretty fast. If you let go after that, they'll come to after a few minutes. This is often poorly shown in movies however, as they're often out for hours (which can't be). The latter's based on more personal research for me to know this. It's the same way where some movies poorly show what it looks like when you're shot dead in the head, but some do it very realistically.

Point I wanted to make was, it is SUPPOSED to be pretty easy to choke someone out, whether it is with the intent to kill or knock them out, you drift into unconsciousness and you're no longer conscious enough to speak or move.

By Evie at Sep 3, 2019, 3:26 AM | 0
Bascially, if you get a good grip, good timing and have a good technique at your disposal, you could choke out someone thrice your size in moments.
By Evie at Sep 3, 2019, 3:30 AM | 0
@ephem kinda, which is why at least being able to call for help gives the victim a chance, and forces the attacker to at least pick their spots where help is unlikely to hear them.
By Marleen at Sep 3, 2019, 3:32 AM | 0
So as far as I know, there's two types of chokes:

Artery choke: Blocks the arteries from delivering blood to the brain. Very likely fatal, but you can still talk during it.

Airway choke: Crushes the airway. A little less fatal than an artery choke, but you can't talk during it.

By ynk at Sep 3, 2019, 3:33 AM | 0
@ynk: one correct, artery choke will make youpass out, and only if continued after that can be deadly.
By Marleen at Sep 3, 2019, 3:33 AM | 0
Maybe make choke a advantage, and let you pick being better at choking, or escaping a choke. Just throwing things out there now. But ya currently even if you overpower soneone in every it takes half a dozen rounds if not more to choke someone out @Evie
By Jotun at Sep 3, 2019, 3:34 AM | 0
We're never going to make it 'easy' to choke someone out to unconsciousness.

I think more than enough has been said on this topic and I will look at it. I do not guarantee we'll make any changes. I will find some time to have a look at it and do some testing however.

–Glitch

By Glitch at Sep 3, 2019, 3:35 AM | 0
Thank you, Glitch, for taking your time with ideas! I'm sure the person who made the topic is even more grateful. ^^
By Evie at Sep 3, 2019, 4:05 AM | 0
The grapple aggro in this thread is really unwarranted.

It's a strong move, and a very useful tool. However, it's literally worse than straight combat in almost every circumstance. There are niche use cases where it's superior to combat, but generally, I find myself using grapple more as an RP tool than I use it for anything else.

I get that it's frustrating to be in a situation where you feel like your character is not in control and/or is doomed, but I can assure you, if you've been successfully grappled and choked out, then you were almost certainly fucked to begin with when it came to getting red texted.

As for shouting, I think that simply masking the speech as garbled shouts would be sufficient.

By TalonCzar at Sep 3, 2019, 7:39 AM | 0
@talonczar

"I get that it's frustrating to be in a situation where you feel like your character is not in control and/or is doomed, but I can assure you, if you've been successfully grappled and choked out, then you were almost certainly fucked to begin with when it came to getting red texted."

That is not true for quite a few IC circumstances where grapple works around things that otherwise would've easily saved your PC. I won't spill the IC beans, but grapple got my PC killed in few spots where under direct attack, it would be 99% certainly alive.

By Marleen at Sep 3, 2019, 8:48 AM | 0
There are niche use cases where it's superior to combat

It's the ability to move people around that makes it powerful, not the ability to choke them. Grabbing someone and dragging them somewhere secure to fight/torture/threaten whatever is a very strong move and often used. That said, I guess you can't drag someone while choking them. It's true that in many cases, if you're able to grab someone and hold them for the duration of a choke, you could probably just kill them in outright combat.

But not always. Imagine you're bare-handed going against someone with a sword, or a gun. If you can grab them and choke them to death, that at least saves you from getting shot or stabbed, although there are other options as well. The point is, grabbing is good.

By Crooknose at Sep 3, 2019, 9:06 AM | 0
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