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The expose system is sometimes helpful for roleplay, but I have recently been considering the use of exposing things that aren't just nakeds. The ability to draw attention to something you are wearing could be helpful. Whether it's a particularly stylish article during a performance, or possibly a holster for a pistol you are concealing, in order to intimidate someone.
By batko at Sep 6, 2024, 12:09 AM
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LEGEND
796 posts
By Aida at Sep 6, 2024, 1:08 AM
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STREET SAM
406 posts
I'd even be fine if it was 'expose' for nakeds and 'showoff' for items if that made implementation easier. I can imagine fun scenes with this.
Jen briefly flashes their left shoulder holster with a big ass gun in it.
James briefly flashes his sexy underwear.
Or however it's templated. :)
By Grey0 at Sep 6, 2024, 4:07 AM
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LEGEND
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what about the ability to show anything in your inventory? this could also help with selling stuff, showing the goods to prove that you have them.
By Phexion at Sep 6, 2024, 5:14 AM
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SPLATJOB
50 posts
Love this idea, and the bit about flashing things in our inventory as well. It'll be really cool and fun to roleplay around with.
By baewulf at Sep 6, 2024, 6:03 AM
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NEWBIE
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This would be so so nice for broadcasts and replayed video.
By Papertiger at Sep 6, 2024, 8:22 AM
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BATA
207 posts
Isn't that…the tease? You tease the item worn?
By QueenZombean at Sep 6, 2024, 12:11 PM
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CHUMMER
170 posts
This is indeed what tease is for, despite its salacious name.
By 0x1mm at Sep 6, 2024, 1:15 PM
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LEGEND
2,859 posts
Tease is not really the same. Explicitly showing off a holster (or scabbard, knife sheath, etc) would also show off the weapon in it and can be used to convey things nonverbally. Teasing a holster will have your character poking at a likely hidden holster that the person cannot look at and see has anything on it.
If it's a tailored piece, sure, tease can fill that role to a limited extent, but for anything that isn't hand crafted by a player, you are SOL. Tease has a specific use, I don't think it's the same as exposing an article of clothing.
By batko at Sep 6, 2024, 2:44 PM
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LEGEND
796 posts
Could you not just pose this though? The contextual reasons for drawing attention to stuff seems way too numerous to me to have a coded mechanism for it, trying to anticipate the reasons someone would want to draw attention to an item is how we got tease which already feels pretty superfluous to me.
By 0x1mm at Sep 6, 2024, 2:51 PM
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LEGEND
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RPing it would make sense. I admit, some people use their teases ANNOYINGLY all the time. And it's just repetitive spam.
By QueenZombean at Sep 6, 2024, 2:53 PM
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CHUMMER
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Sure, you can pose it, but mechanical realities have to be conveyed by mechanics. Anyone can pose that they are flashing their 9mm that they have under their coat, or the gigantic hunting knife, or the katana they somehow have under there, but until someone sees it then I don't think it carries the same weight. After all, you can write whatever you want in a pose.
And then that's just for flashing weapons. There's a plethora of reasons why exposing specific clothes might be helpful as well, with television being one important point that has been mentioned in this thread.
I see this as a pretty simple and unobtrusive feature, the framework is already there with the expose command, so I am more wondering if there is any good reason this should not be implemented, outside of whether it appeals to the whims of the limited programmers at hand.
By batko at Sep 6, 2024, 2:58 PM
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LEGEND
796 posts
Well
expose is stupid for one (except for disguises) and when players use it it's lazy and spammy and is just avoiding roleplaying, the same goes for teases already. I don't relish the idea of 'hey look at my x' turning into room spam instead of leaving the agency on other players to choose to glance or look at another character.
Pose does everything and does it better than any pre-coded system could and I personally think niche commands to play rote messages to the room is something we ought to be doing less of rather than more.
By 0x1mm at Sep 6, 2024, 3:07 PM
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LEGEND
2,859 posts
I wonder though if we couldn't cover this by mass changing stock teases to "%N shows %p %t." and "%N % %p %t to %d. ."
So you'd get:
Joebaka shows his right shoulder holster to you. In the right shoulder holster you a Berretta 9mm.
Which might be more useful than poking and fiddling awkwardly.
By 0x1mm at Sep 6, 2024, 3:22 PM
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LEGEND
2,859 posts
It ate my tags there but basically fold %contents into dtease like how you see on look so the contents get sent on the dtease message.
By 0x1mm at Sep 6, 2024, 3:23 PM
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LEGEND
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Thinking about it more, I came out too strongly again this idea because I was kind of hung up on the worn aspect of it and having teases in mind (and not liking teases to begin with) but I've realized that this concept actually has quite a bit of general purpose use if it can be
any described object and not just worn ones.
If you could, for example, show x to y in order to broadcast an item description to another character (so that they see details that aren't available on look like serials, content, etc.) then such a command becomes not just useful for showing off a holster under a trenchcoat but also for showing the contents of a container to someone, showing the details of an idea (without giving it to someone) or showing something that might not be very intuitive for another player to use 'look x on y' (art objects come to mind).
It would basically be a sent look command and if it has a target there's really no spam concern.
By 0x1mm at Sep 6, 2024, 6:37 PM
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LEGEND
2,859 posts
I'm not sure why I typed details of an idea, I meant details of an item.
By 0x1mm at Sep 6, 2024, 6:38 PM
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LEGEND
2,859 posts
I don't personally see expose used often enough that spam was much of a concern to me, but I do think there could be some concern for some tailored articles that are very, very, very long. Fair enough. Targeted exposition is a good idea, hopefully with the ability to show multiple people at a time.
By batko at Sep 6, 2024, 6:41 PM
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LEGEND
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If this was being done for a piece of clothing, would it show the @worn or the @describe do you think?
By 0x1mm at Sep 6, 2024, 8:27 PM
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LEGEND
2,859 posts
I suppose it depends if it was worn or not. If it's extended to any item in your inventory, I'd guess it would show the current state of the item, but being able to show the description rather than the worn message may be an interesting reason to use it.
By batko at Sep 6, 2024, 9:17 PM
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LEGEND
796 posts
It is a shortcut kind of thing but so are socials. I don't feel this is the same as tease, even if tease was better utilized. One thing I would add though.
what about the ability to show anything in your inventory?
I am not a fan of using something like this to show anything that isn't worn. I don't want a shortcut that keeps you from having to put things in your hand.
Why? Because there's a kind of risk that comes with putting something in your hands I don't want to remove. I want there to be opportunities for snatch and runs and for someone to walk in just after and see what you are holding and so on.
By Grey0 at Sep 7, 2024, 5:10 AM
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LEGEND
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To add a little more context, I'd be open to a command that is meant for 'showing off' a worn Item. Or having exposed modified to do this.
I am wearing a jacket and want to show you the badass t-shirt under it without having to start removing layers of clothes (which can be annoying and spammy) or having to copy and paste messages into a pose (which would be annoying for me personally.
I have a holster on my back anyone can see but want to flash it to those watching as a subtle threat. This would do it without risk of me misrepresenting what I have without interrupting my flow too much. I would likely combine this with a short pose.
I agree that poses are awesome and prefer them. But sometimes speed is important. Flow is important. Accuracy is important. And not all players can type 150 words per minute. To me this kind of thing would be a lot like a social.
As far as tease goes… I agree that a well crafted tease could accomplish some of this. If I could tailor. I don't play tailors and still want to be able to do some of this. Hire a tailor? Again, I don't think I should have to. Besides, when I do, I prefer to keep it as IC as possible and to give the tailor as much freedom as possible. I think it's nice to the tailor and keeps things more immersive for me but it also means that I'm not going to get everything EXACTLY how I want. And last I checked, most off the rack items have terrible teases.
Do I think the game NEEDS this. That we can't manage without it? No. Do I think all players will want to use it? Nope. And I think both are okay. If someone on staff likes the idea and wants to throw it in, that'd be awesome. If not, that's okay too.
By Grey0 at Sep 7, 2024, 5:34 AM
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LEGEND
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Limiting it to worn or held items would be neat. Then you still need to hold something in order to show it.
By batko at Sep 7, 2024, 10:14 AM
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LEGEND
796 posts
I like this idea. Especially when you're dealing with fixers and someone is trying to show you an item in their hand and I have to remember how to look at the item on this person again (I always forget).
On the discussion of 'expose', I love it because sometimes it's a pain to read through an entire description to find a specific part someone is talking about. Descriptions on people can be very long, mine included. And I have ADHD so, I understand this pain. It makes it easier to be like 'look I got this piercing done', RP pointing at it and then 'expose @naked' to show where it is so no one has to go looking for it.
By Veleth at Sep 7, 2024, 10:19 AM
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ACE KOOL
624 posts
I suppose it's all just quibbling over theory since these idea posts will probably never see the light of day anyway but I don't think it would be consistent design or rules to restrict carried items but not worn items, and while allowing held items.
It's not true that held items are more vulnerable than carried items, they're each always subject to different risks but those risks are comparable and actually weighting similarly as far as what the object is and how it is interacted with (which will become obvious when you see a character actively holding an item to protect it). Likewise a worn item is hidden and protected in a way that neither held nor carried items are, so those types of limitations seem kind of arbitrary to me.
By 0x1mm at Sep 7, 2024, 11:56 AM
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LEGEND
2,859 posts
I don't think being able to expose clothing items would make a huge difference one way or another, it's more a quality of life feature that would be very convenient, along with other suggestions made. If it's not too hard to code, I'd like to see it.
And yeah, I know what you mean. There's definitely cons/pros to pocketing things or holding them. Different ways of 'acquiring'. :)
By Veleth at Sep 7, 2024, 4:35 PM
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ACE KOOL
624 posts
It's not true that held items are more vulnerable than carried itemsI was not suggesting that unheld items were safer. They are vulnerable in different ways. If someone knows about them. What I was worried about was two things. One, never having to hold the item to show it off means reducing the opportunity for others to see that you have it to some small but, in my mind, important extent. Two, you remove at least one possible threat from the table if you never ever have to hold the item to show it off.
I'd be cool with held or worn. Just not a fan of showing off items in your inventory. Sorry for the lack of clarity.
By Grey0 at Sep 9, 2024, 4:11 AM
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LEGEND
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Well I would really hope personally that development would eventually move away from trying to bake in tons of limitations and downsides based on hypothetical outcomes from the start and move more towards empowering players with useful broad tool and then addressing issues if they present later. So rarely, if ever, does the game allow for new and emergent gameplay because it's so concerned with keeping things exactly as they are.
By 0x1mm at Sep 9, 2024, 11:52 AM
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LEGEND
2,859 posts