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Local OOC

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Just curious. At the moment the Local OOC says this.

Local OOC (LOOC)

Local OOC is a useful tool for players, however, LOOC is not a system that is intended for general chatter about IRL happenings, what you had for dinner last week, or what color your dog is. Some useful and correct uses are:

To assist new players with getting their footing in the game.

To offer immediate command assistance to someone that is struggling to use a command.

To let a player know something may be a @bug and to assist them in submitting it.

To let someone know their @LP is wrong or is missing some punctuation.

To let a player know you're going to be AFK for a moment.

To communicate with any staff in the room that you are in.

To ask another player to Fade-To-Black.

However I think it would be helpful to add a few more things like.

- Letting someone know what your schedule is to continue RP.

- Temperature Checks - if a scene is heavy you wanna make sure the person is ok.

- Offering a compliment/comment if something was really well done. Or if something was not ok.

I get that OOC chatter can take over and we don't want that. Talking about game systems, is a no-no. But we can't jump into Xooc and say these things without breaking rules either.

By QueenZombean at Nov 6, 2024, 8:27 AM | 0
That's what OOC-Chat is for.

We don't want people using Local OOC to chat and become friends and grow bonds to the point where they feel compelled to 'ooc Morning! Hope you had a great sleep, I'm having a stressful day because the dog shit in the kitchen and stuff but I can't wait to RP with you!' because it does happen.

If you want to talk OOC, then use OOC-Chat.

By Mench at Nov 6, 2024, 8:29 AM | 0
I think you can easily schedule things in an IC way without going into OOC - it's been done consistently with people talking about how they're busy on a Tuesday 4PM dome time because of out of central and couldn't attend an event for example.

I disagree with temperature checks because that can easily devolve into IC/OOC bleed in a PvP game, and the same with compliments - there are ways to do this that don't involve breaking the IC/OOC barrier.

There's a reason why characters aren't in Town Halls anymore and are instead users.

By Cowbell at Nov 6, 2024, 8:30 AM | 0
Ah got it :) Thank you!
By QueenZombean at Nov 6, 2024, 8:31 AM | 0
Having the ability to take a 'Temp Check' is easily one of the fastest ways for our 'Friendly Competitive RP' to remain friendly and not lead to bad blood, accusations of hurt feelings and discomfort, and ensure the character isn't encroaching on subjects or subject matter what makes the WRITER, not the CHARACTER, uncomfortable.

As someone who's been on the receiving end of OOC Accusations stemming from IC interactions, I can say with 100% certainty that an 'IC Temp Check' is seen as just that and responded to as such. Meaning, what the character says and what the writer is feeling doesn't always match.

I greatly appreciate temp checks for particularly heavy scenes or subject matter because it shows we, as writers, still matter within the context of the game.

By Knyghtskye at Nov 6, 2024, 8:36 AM | 0
- Letting someone know what your schedule is to continue RP.

This is fine in Local OOC (Going into detail about why and telling a 3 page biography about your aunties wedding ring is not.)

- Temperature Checks - if a scene is heavy you wanna make sure the person is ok.

Try and avoid it, if you think another player is having a hard time then ping staff and we can reach out. If you really feel you need to, then keep it simple "This scene is kinda heavy, you okay to continue?" and keep it at that, don't then begin talking about how much you love to RP with the other person and that they're writing style is amazing and how much you want to take out a small loan of a million dollars to clone them as an AI.

- Offering a compliment/comment if something was really well done. Or if something was not ok.

Again, try and avoid - You can ping staff to provide feedback (Unless it's something like requesting to FTB or something.) if needs be, and again, if you REALLY need to, then keep it simple. "That scene was good, thanks." // "I really liked that clothing you tailored for my character" // "I'm not really into talking about those kind of topics, can we try and avoid in the future?"

By Mench at Nov 6, 2024, 8:37 AM | 0
Thank you Knyghtskye for putting it so beautifully.

That's what a temp check is. It's not to break immersion but if something is especially intense/bleedy. It's nice to have someone ground you and remind you that you are playing a game and nobody IRL hates/loathes you. Because some people take that on.

In our D&D game it's as simple as a thumbs up. A friendly reminder that the person who is causing you IC pain is still friendly.

By QueenZombean at Nov 6, 2024, 8:39 AM | 0
FTB and temp checks go hand in hand, don't they?
By Quotient at Nov 6, 2024, 8:39 AM | 0
Thank you Mench!

The issue is though, that doing so varies. You might be able to do it once and it be okay. But the next time you get an admin warning. If something like that was a green light (WITHIN REASON) like a simple sentence and not allowed to turn into a conversation. Then it would avoid the chaos.

A comment is one thing. Conversation is another :)

By QueenZombean at Nov 6, 2024, 8:40 AM | 0
Temp check in middle of a scene is imo a bad idea. Will be interpreted any amount of ways and might make someone feel self-conscious or guilty and change how they intended to keep up the rp.
By crashdown at Nov 6, 2024, 8:43 AM | 0
Guilty? Maybe we need to clarify HOW it is done. Cuz we don't want to give people a button to get out of ugly scenes. That's not the point.
By QueenZombean at Nov 6, 2024, 8:46 AM | 0
@Knyghtskye

If a topic is making you uncomfortable, FTB is something you can rely on. If there are IC rumors that make you uncomfortable and they're against the rules, you can xhelp or note to let staff know and they'll handle it.

Ultimately though there are situations in which you might be uncomfortable in a PvP game. If it isn't against the rules, I don't think bringing it into OOC is the right thing to do. It can make the opposite side feel bad and manipulate IC situations. Players will accept FTB requests, but talking about how their IC actions made you uncomfortable will not achieve anything good. It's a slippery slope if that's suddenly allowed in local OOC.

Use FTB. Let staff know if something is up. I agree with Mench that keeping it short is best.

By Cowbell at Nov 6, 2024, 8:47 AM | 0
I think we need to clarify, I don't see temp checks for those kinds of things. Chaos happens.

I can see how this can be complicated. I use temp checks for personal RP. When you care/know the character. You know them enough to say, 'Are you ok'

By QueenZombean at Nov 6, 2024, 8:53 AM | 0
@Cowbell

I appreciate your point-of-view, but I think I know how to communicate effectively without overdoing it or making someone shift their intention and dilute the intended message. I'll take your words under advisement. I think Mench said it best - keep it short - but generally, I prefer to communicate one-on-one.

By Knyghtskye at Nov 6, 2024, 9:02 AM | 0
@Knyghtskye

Of course. I didn't imply you didn't, but not everyone can, and it's a loophole that I can see a lot of people taking advantage of to soften the PvP aspect. There are ways around it without changing the rules to allow 'temperature checks' in the middle of scenes or plots.

People who play antagonistic characters tend to very much listen if a character, in an IC manner, requests an out or communicates they're OOCly stressed over what's happening.

By Cowbell at Nov 6, 2024, 9:06 AM | 0
@cowbell

Wait? They do? Maybe this is one of those moments where I haven't been involved in enough chaos yet to know better :)

By QueenZombean at Nov 6, 2024, 9:09 AM | 0
They might not just drop everything right away and tell you that you can go, but if you ask for an out through IC means most players would be willing to give you a compromise of some sort (such as a task, a job, or even paying them) to let you off the hook. There are of course exceptions depending on the IC situation but I am writing this as a general overview.
By Cowbell at Nov 6, 2024, 9:11 AM | 0
@Cowbell

In my experience, No… antagonistic characters do not listen, IC. In fact, I know from experience that attempting to communicate OOC Stress & Discomfort has had the exact opposite effect.

In my personal experience, the PVP Aspect of the game tends to take priority for these antagonistic types, and any attempt to communicate from a writer perspective is either entirely ignored or seen as more fuel for the fire.

Make Friendly-Competitive PVP a thing again!

By Knyghtskye at Nov 6, 2024, 9:13 AM | 0
I don't think anyone should be soliciting OOC temp checks or anything else from other players unsolicited in public roleplay ever unless they're FtB requests or rules interventions, frankly I think players are just hanging out in public OOC discourse joking about the typos and memeing about things has gotten endemic and blurs the lines more than it establishes separation.

In private with players you know to a certainty are comfortable with that by prior agreement its a different story, but essentially in all other cases my opinion would be that non-necessary OOC in public is just flat out immersion breaking for everyone.

By 0x1mm at Nov 6, 2024, 11:25 AM | 0
"@Cowbell

In my experience, No… antagonistic characters do not listen, IC. In fact, I know from experience that attempting to communicate OOC Stress & Discomfort has had the exact opposite effect.

In my personal experience, the PVP Aspect of the game tends to take priority for these antagonistic types, and any attempt to communicate from a writer perspective is either entirely ignored or seen as more fuel for the fire.

Make Friendly-Competitive PVP a thing again!"

With respect, I will not ever alter the course of RP as a result of OOC concerns. I will offer a FTB for scenes that either do not suit my tastes or the recipients', but I will always conduct myself according to the mood set for my character, or decisions made entirely by weighing the situation from an IC perspective.

I am sorry if your experiences thus far have been predominately mechanically defined, and unfulfilling. Please do not rope every player/character in to stand under the umbrella of that perception.

By Quotient at Nov 6, 2024, 11:49 AM | 0
Local ooc helps prevent bleed for me. Just saying.
By Rillem at Nov 6, 2024, 11:51 AM | 0
It might for you but if someone is sending like, unsolicited wellness checks over local OOC at strangers, that is going to be wildly boundary crossing for some of them.

The type of communication should be restricted to very private confines between players with long rapports between them to know what each is comfortable with. We're not all sitting at a table as friends, we're by and large strangers to one another and suddenly dissolving that distant remove is not going to be welcomed in many cases.

By 0x1mm at Nov 6, 2024, 12:05 PM | 0
''With respect, I will not ever alter the course of RP as a result of OOC concerns. I will offer a FTB for scenes that either do not suit my tastes or the recipients', but I will always conduct myself according to the mood set for my character, or decisions made entirely by weighing the situation from an IC perspective.

I am sorry if your experiences thus far have been predominately mechanically defined, and unfulfilling. Please do not rope every player/character in to stand under the umbrella of that perception.''

They say, after confirming my point. Thank you.

I didn't rope every character/player under my perception, but generally speaking, my perception seems to be the correct one. I won't use Temp Checks in public with total strangers; they're for personal and private RP. Generally social RP. I think I'll leave the antagonistic murder-hoboing to people who enjoy that kinda thing, I don't think our playstyles match up.

By Knyghtskye at Nov 6, 2024, 12:54 PM | 0
Every time I see LOOC used my immersion just shatters. It doesn't need updating/expanding upon. It has its purposes the same way xhelp does.

I'm gonna be 100% real, I'm never gonna temp check u in a scene. If I think you're bleeding or uncomfortable I'm gonna ask GMs to check in on you, I'd rather not break the flow otherwise.

use LOOC for "brief afk" notes, or to help newbies with a quick command if they seem unsure. The general conversation and what not is just irksome. We have xooc for that.

By Ryuzaki4Days at Nov 6, 2024, 1:35 PM | 0
I have asked players if they prefer to FTB before engaging in gruesome/torturous acts IC but otherwise I have never done a temp check or anything, nor have I seen one. I don't think I'd appreciate one except for, as I mentioned, an offer for FTB if it's a torture scene or something. Once you invite OOC discussion of what is happening IC, it is easy to manipulate either party from an OOC standpoint. The only discussion should be whether what is happening needs to be posed/emoted or if both parties can agree it happened and move on with roleplay.
By batko at Nov 6, 2024, 2:27 PM | 0
I am going to suggest that if as a player you feel like you need a temp check, then you are bleeding. Step away from the game for a while and come back when you are in a mindset and emotional state that is resilient to conflict.

On the flip side, if you as a player feel like you are inflicting / forcing / imposing / etc something on another character that might make their player uncomfortable, moderate your behavior. YOU are the person having those feelings. YOU are projecting how you would feel on another person by assuming that you "know" they "need" a temp check. For all you know, the other player is enjoying the struggle and the intensity. By dropping into local OOC, you are breaking immersion for them.

On a related tangent, it is "Okay to play a BAD person" in Withmore. Players log in here expecting conflict. We expect that we are not going to get along with every character we encounter.

Don't overly concern yourself with managing how you think other people are feeling or responding to your RP. There are so many mechanisms in place like Rules, FTB, xhelp, and @notes that players can utilize.

By Hek at Nov 6, 2024, 2:39 PM | 0
Two thoughts on this one for now.

1.

We are all meta and we all let OOC elements impact our game. The community and staff generally just tries to define acceptable and unacceptable instances of these things.

Anyone playing a high UE character is encouraged to not just murder a low UE player in most cases, even if it makes IC sense for that character to do so. Likewise, a player is discouraged from creating or joining an overpowering power block that sniffles or extinguishes competition - even if doing so makes a ton of IC sense for a character. Some prominent staff have laid out examples of these things.

It is quite literally impossible to play this game, and similar games, without some level of meta and OOC factors intruding on IC character decisions. I think questions like this one are good. We should always examine how we draw our lines between acceptable and unacceptable and why.

2.

There are a lot PvP RPI games out there. Some, like Sindome, try to stop as much OOC communication as they reasonably can. Others encourage it. I've seen both work. I'm not saying that Sindome should change it's approach. I am saying that it's easy to play SIndome for a decade or more and start thinking that this is the best way or even only way that a PvP RPI game can possibly work. It's easy to hammer nails for so long and so exclusively that you start to only see hammers and nails.

Again, not saying Sindome should change. Just that I think it's important to keep an open mind as other PvP RPIs do exist that do things quite differently than we do. Just because an idea or suggestion is not of the tried and true Sindome flavor doesn't mean that it could never work in a PvP RPI game. We don't want that here is very valid to me. Our way works and it's comfortable and tried and true for us is great. That could never work in a PvP RPI game… I disagree.

By Grey0 at Nov 7, 2024, 4:28 AM | 0
@hek

I had someone temp check me last night and it didn't break immersion. I was really sleepy and up past my bed time, they asked me a quick 'hey you doing ok?' and I simply got to respond with a 'totally- just dead' to let them know as my behavior was off and they'd picked up on that.

As we RP together, we get to know patterns and ways that each person behaves. We are a community, and more than just playing some regular video game. One of my favorite things about xooc is being able to say 'life sucks hot dog water' freely or 'someone gimme some good music to vibe to' and it's fine. But you can't do that in the IC world if you see someone behaving oddly and you're concerned, or if they're concerned for you.

It's not always about bleed :)

But I do respect the community and if people are against it, at the end of the day you can always exchange discord accounts. Is it meta if you say 'hey is life being ok'?

By QueenZombean at Nov 7, 2024, 7:03 AM | 0
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