New NPC Theft Code Interlocks
Instead of ~1:1 NPC:PC Policy

The change I would suggest making is to dissolve the 1:1 policy on NPC:PC targeting and instead leave it up to players to steal from other players at their preference, but to instead limit players to stealing chyen from NPCs once per day total and four times per week total, in addition to all the other coded limitations that already exist. This would, in my opinion, bring it into line with similar time-gating mechanisms on other automated income sources and prevent wholesale farming of NPCs, give an incentive to target dangerous wealthy NPCs in high risk areas, and also reduce the degree of theft that players will be overall subjected to per chyen that a thief is earning.

This would also have the significant advantage of being a coded interlock and would not be subject to the same subjective variation in what is appropriate or not. In my view this would make the game better for both thieves and their targets, and has no obvious issues of abuse that I can see.

"What if the PC already consumed their coded pickpockets for the day, there's RP occurring that would benefit from their ability to pickpocket an NPC, and now they simply cannot?"

This is really the only problem I have with code locks. It removes flexibility to respond those uncertain instances. And yes, they could just, presumably keep their pickpocketing down to plan for that, but that seems less fun when you're building your character around that skillset.

I've never had 'steal chyen from this NPC right this moment' as an urgent part of a roleplaying scenario. It strikes me as a vanishingly small hypothetical set against the 520,000c of automated income a player has allocated to them a year to earn, and not something I would personally want to do away with a happier experience overall for.

Code should absolutely be the determiner in places where a lot of disagreement is likely to arise about what is fair and what should happen. See also things like interlocks on attacking.

And I want to be able to play my archetype without wondering each day if I've got enough favourable impression on whoever is currently staff online not to get punished for a very blurry line different people have had different interpretations on.

I've literally been XHELPed seconds after taking chyen from an NPC after solely acquiring income through PC interaction for months. So I feel you, but I'm still going to advocate for mechanical freedom over codified restrictions in this specific instance.

You're just framing it in the most restrictive possible hypothetical terms that don't have to exist in order to dismiss the idea. I was very supportive of the difficulties you've had and supported changes to aid them on this forum, and I think it would be constructive to suggest ways to improve the suggestions rather than nitpick hypotheticals and deconstruct phrasing as law.

We go back and forth. I don't generally take things on here personally and I certainly hope you don't.

There's a possibility that I may come up with an alternative in the near future as it occurs to be, but right now my responses reflect my stance. I will certainly contribute in a more positive way if an alternative means of implementation occurs to me, but for now I'm just expressing an opinion, which is important in its own way, no?

Where conflict and loss are concerned it should be about code, or explicit exacting policy period. Not whatever someone happens to be feeling about a given player. Why would you want that type of system supporting it?

At a minimum we should have similar levels of reward and controls based on level of risk and effort. Ten times the work, or twenty times the time, for tiny rewards is not an outcome that is reasonable or fairly implemented in my opinion when looking at all the various income systems that exist and where most of the money being earned in the game is coming from.

There's nothing in what I suggested that says anything you've put forward as a problem is impossible or will be fatal to the experience, this type of code already exists for single-target per day tracking, I've never heard anyone say that was catastrophically preventing their roleplaying? I just don't see why you view this as such a problem.

If no one wants to get on board with changing some of the policies that drive that experience, then ultimately that is okay with me because I have the skill and time and resources and character build to work around uphill work, but I will recognize that other players are going to be worse off, in my opinion, based on their feedback to thievery.

There are a number of factors that allow individuals who depend on other authorized sources of income to reach cap more efficiently, I don't see why other specialties should be prohibited from doing so.

My only advocacy is not to inhibit the ability for a PC to perform a needed action in the moment of meaningful RP.

But just pickpocketing PCs that have no way to discover you, stop you from pickpocketing them etc is just a negative experience for the target. It doesn't give them anything but loss.

So, whichever system we can implement that promotes more RP-bearing-based thievery I am all for. Why is it so terrible to let pickpockets hone skills and earn chy from NPCs? Especially if that profit falls in line with weekly caps etc.

There is literally no benefit in immy#2467 having their crate money lifted. Immy is suddenly without resources to continue certain RP avenues, has no idea what happened and is just shit out of luck for more interaction. The PC pickpocket would earn the same profit just stealing from some tourist and would leave another PC with resources to generate fun for themselves and others.

The stress and frustration of trying to do this without being flagged for farming led me to stop dipping altogether for 6 or so months at one point.

I have to ask myself how many people are earning the majority of their income from automated sources like job terminals, candy runs, shitberg farming, etc etc and not from other players at equal intervals. None of those income streams are dictated in rules as being restricted beyond the weekly cap

Dips, on top of their extra farming controls, have much less agency to make up the disparity between NPC and PC income than say, a combat character doing the same thing. A mugger can work someone over and steal a holstered weapon. Dips can't. Combatants can steal worn clothes. Dips can't. They can beat you down and frisk you to find the best things to steal. Dips can't. They can potentially rip chrome or have chrome ripped. Dips can't. They can literally steal every item on your person at once. Dips can't. They can target the same person more than once in a day without messages popping every time they input their bread and butter command. Dips can't.

A dip can bring 10k in NPC flash with 2-4 dip x npc commands. It takes all of five 5 minutes. For that 10k in income that everyone with dayjob income just gets in automated hustle if they want it (no strings attached via terminals, candy, weapon runs, bergs, etc.), a dip might have to go after 10+ PCs to accumulate the same in PC targeted income. Add the value of a big ticket item and it goes up. It represents hours and hours of effort. I felt like I had to spend my whole life online to come close to equilibrium on the NPC/PC income ratio. All for something most others get with no fuss. Dips have access to the same automated income if they want it, face the same blanket caps as everyone else (toward which their one unique source of semi-automated income counts), but deal with IC gear and mechanical features that restrict their ability to take from PCs, plus additional rules around farming. It makes no sense.

Keep the 1PC dip per day and remove the additional farming considerations is my opinion. Put them on the same level of consideration that every other automated income stream gets and let the weekly cap do its job.

This first part is in response to 0x1mm's comment in the Where are you Withmore thread, with regard to the rules referring to balance among all sources of income (not just dips). The dip I played did pull in a majority of income from dips or dip related RP. So while I think I do nterpret the farming rules the similarly, I was referring to dipping in a vacuum because I was interested in, and did, lean very heavily into the archetype to the exclusion of other income (never mind profit), including job terminals, for long periods of time.

Aha I follow you now sorry for the cross-chatter I didn't fully grasp what you meant in the other thread, and also my sincere sympathies because that sounds brutal.

I think it's a bigger issue on that side than for NPCs.

Still, I don't want to see dips going hog wild on PCs were that 1 a day rule lifted. That's a tough one to solve for me.

And do you even know you were pickpocketed by a player?

This is what I mean about the design choices and policies of the game pushing negativity onto players over things they have little say or no say in currently. I would prefer myself to engage with players in more interesting ways like Winston describes, but if I want to make a very basic income from my considerable skill investments, I don't have that option with this policy in place.