Pocket and Place
'Get' and 'Drop' in style.

Placing things covertly is fine, but being able to pocket tips at player events is going to get abused and cause more frustration for one of the more difficult and exhausting archetypes in the game.

Will it really you think, the beginning of the IC death of the entertainment industry? Because if so, I have terrible news for you.

Also, while I know a lot of players love their entertainers, it's a take it or leave it aspect of the game for me. I think they do some good for the game but I personally barely have tolerance for the ten thousandth party, strip show, fashion show, art gallery and whatever else. It's never been an aspect of the game I cared much for outside of the possible conflict it can generate and I'm not sure it generates all that much. I'd almost rather always do other things. Entertainment simply isn't, in my opinion, some holy and essential part of the game who's preservation needs to trump other fun.

And, once again, I am not sure why protections against this needs to be free and baked in for everyone. If entertainment events start to et attacked players start employing guards. If they start to get robbed stealthily, why not hire a sneak to catch a sneak? Why do we force players to cope with some adversities while simply baring others?

Risking getting into the age old debate that hovers around thievery, this skill has more potential for abuse than most skills, a skillful dip has and will pass the point where they can enter a crowded club, dip literally everyone there, take the money off the floor while they're at it, and leave with a pile of progias and wallets and tips with none of the twenty people present actually seeing them.

Expecting players to just magically sprout another dip that pulls security for the event for a fraction of what they could make if they just did what the other dip is doing is kind of silly.

Whether you're personally interested in it or not, running events in the game is pretty important and does generate conflict. Anything that gets people out of their apartment has more potential to generate conflict. Thievery, in my eyes, especially with this suggestion, has negative potential for creating any conflict due to how it has been abused and will be abused.

At least if someone starts killing people, everyone can clearly see and react to it. Pickpockets simply siphon funds without ever being forced out of stealth, never having to interact with the players they are 'competing' against 'cooperatively' if they don't have to. The risk is leagues lower and it is much harder for anyone involved to actually prevent it, whereas preventative measures for murder are a dime a dozen.

A character could have put 100 UE in counter-stealth, but instead they chased that preem long blade letter grade and now they can't counter theft. Believe it or not those are the trade offs everyone else faces with other skill sets.

In my opinion thievery is underutilized and actually is somewhat useless towards the midbie range of things, so if anything, a buff to it would make thievery based characters get utilized more in PvP.

If someone is using theft in a way that damages the game, then they should be reported. What I find interesting is that this generally seems to be enough for combat but not for thieves. Instead there is this frequent demand for more restrictions on and strong push back against any expansion on stealth/thieving.

Did you all know that staff is informed of every theft and pick pocketing commited? That staff can and does monitor player wealth as needed? Even if you don't notice the sneaky thief abusing the rules, staff WILL.

I am not saying that we shouldn't carefully consider balance and theme when implementing mechanics. The more we can code things in and take the load off staff while not turning Sindome into another numbers chasing game with little to no RP, the better in my mind. But I am not a fan of proactively punishing a player in the form of sever restrictions on what they can do is desirable. Sure, some of it is going to happen but I would prefer to minimize it as much as possible.

Charismatic characters do have recourse though, they are infinitesimally more likely to get information on who killed them and hire a solo about it because combat characters aren't invisible while doing the deed. In my experience, some of the most bloodthirsty characters who want to hire a solo about everything are non-combatants. People who get dipped just cry about it.

In addition to my personal experience informing my view of it indeed having potential for abuse: the skill has been intentionally limited mechanically for a reason. This suggestion to be able to steal things from a room cannot be policed in the same way that the skill currently is policed by the rules surrounding it.

You are limited to one theft per person per day because, again, it was abused in the past. There is no way to objectively quantify who is being stolen from in this scenario, making it basically free game for the same kind of abuse that had to be adjudicated against in the past.

Thievery does not take all the chyen in your pockets because it's balanced by the skill. Would you only be able to steal some of a pile of chyen? Would it be limited one attempt per day like pickpocketing a player is? Would you be able to pickpocket the same player for the same money that they just picked up after you stole from the pile? Would that be circumventing the one theft per player per day rule?

These new mechanics have to fit into the existing balance structure and rules of the game. I mentioned this earlier in the thread and I should have been more clear about it instead of going off on a tangent about why pickpocketing has potential for abuse.

I think batko's main concern is the lack of rp a newbie (and a lot of people) gets during these situations. Once is whatever twice an okay. Third time isn't the charm. I'll say as someone who has gone through the newbie experience recently that the lack of rp before during or after a dip came through was disappointing. I don't personally think theft or theft area skills need additions or buffs

Or debuffs. But I do hope at some point the dips who don't offer some type of even minor interactions for new or even older characters will rethink that approach.

Sorry for typos on phone.

Combat characters require vastly more investment and risk than thieves. They lose vastly more and gain vastly less. And even though you seem to be confident that thieves being buffed is some kind of strange kryptonite that will topple the combat empire, that's simply not the case. The only people this will affect are new and low UE players. The only reason why thievery is underrepresented right now is due to the natural ebb and flow of the game. Everyone likes to talk about how long blades are OP, but a majority of combat characters currently use guns, does that mean guns are dominating the game and long blades need a buff because they're picked on and underrepresented?

No, that's absurd. The archetype is fine as it is and has great potential for earning and for roleplay, but it historically focuses on the former, not the latter.

I don't think combat is overpowered. If people started campaigning for the ability to damage players while maintaining stealth, I would have the same response that I have exhibited in this thread. If people started asking for combat to go faster instead of taking time between attacks to give people a chance to respond, I would exhibit the same response. It is fine where it is and does not require any mechanical boost right now.

Combat characters are expected to police (and arguably have to some degree or another, where GMs haven't had to involve themselves to correct errant behavior).

Pickpocketing or "pocketing" a single prone individual should be a subject of self policing, and not necessarily a barrier for implementation. I'm all for mechanical/programmatic solutions, but this one kind of falls in line with other systems. There's significant roleplay benefit to the proposed mechanics outside the cautioned abused that I think it's worth a try.

If there's concern then a bouncer who's trained to be a counter dip can be hired at a club and this also provides more work for a character who will most likely be a lowbie to midbie.

I don't see potential for abuse with dips nearly as much as I see the potential for them being destroyed either. If a character is found to be a dip as soon as something gets stolen they're the first suspect and whether or not there's evidence there's a high chance they'll be at minimum confronted over it and likely by characters vastly more powerful than they are. I have witnessed one dip being targeted for the work of others as well.

You can make chy with the archetype but if you are ever caught and aren't able to take measures to secure your anonymity down the line it's actually one of the worst experiences you can have on the game.