Shitberg Adjustments
Solutions to free-farming

Shitbergs, like cargo and macguffins, currently represents a system that has so far fallen short of its intended function. That function is to provide story beats and incentive for conflict related RP.

It, like those other systems, is not intended to be a source of unlimited free chy.

With that in mind, please do not use this as a chance to complain that we're taking away or restricting another source of automated income. I'll be perfectly clear here. I havent used this system in a long time, and I also dont want to see it go. I love that there are various modes of automated income because they have the POTENTIAL to foster conflict RP. I do absolutely want to restrict it if it means it makes it function as originally intended. These sources of income are meant to be contested. The alternative to adjusting the system for that intended function is to slash it altogether. If we can't find a solution then I side with removing it.

These systems are meant to create conflict, not to be a means to attain free wealth. If they can't perform as such then they have no place here. That is my stance.

I will offer my idea and then open the discussion.

The problem I see with bergs is a lack of scarcity. Staff have tried to reduce berg loot to mitigate free farming to little effect. We've reduced items of value and reduced loot spawn more than once. People still farm it. They simply spend more time to get similar value in loot.

Therfore, I want to cap the number of bergs that spawn each week. Similar to weekly income, this will put a hard cap on the total earning potential each week. Whereas players are capped for certain types of direct income via the tried and true weekly system, bergs themseves would be capped to a total item value. This means the cap is shared between everyone farming bergs. Once that cap is reached, they stop spawning.

This will, hopefully, create competition.

Scarcity breeds conflict. This is why the candy system works. I've seen threads where people relay a desire to have more NPCs for this system. That makes farming easier at the cost of RP. Rather than asking for easy access to these systems, we should be fighting and politicking and cutting deals to achieve positions of control over resources. Take what's yours if you want it. Lie cheat and kill to get it if you have to. We're staving otherwise. Cyberpunk af.

And that's all for now. Please give us any ideas you think could improve the system.

I don't disagree with batko though. I feel like in the current state, maybe it's best if shitbergs are just considered to be part of WCS income, or even restricts them to only WCS. As someone who hasn't ever played a WCS character I've never once felt compelled to go anywhere near shitbergs.

Instead of hard capping the number of shitbergs, maybe look at WHY people aren't fighting for them. For the players going for them, they feel scarce enough.

While I don't want to go ic with things, there are ic reasons for people not poaching shitbergs. And it has nothing to do with scarcity.

Then limit the age of people in Wicks, so they can't be super badasses to scare away the poachers.

This will get more people tasting the income, before having it taken from them. Creating more poacher,s and more chances of conflict.

It's slower and less visible conflict but it is there. I wouldn't be against turning down the number of shitberg spawns since they can respawn so quickly that it's obnoxious, but I wouldn't turn it down by much. I just also would really hate if they were to go away completely since some reason to go down into the sewer is a whole lot better than none at all. There should be more reasons added to the game, and what already exists shouldn't be taken away.

If anything, I would consider it to be a low form of no-selling or meta to have any but the most low-class and disgusting characters, such as Park gangers, be willing to dig through heaps of human feces for paltry loot.

If some kind of loot pinata system where multiple players converge on a point to argue over who gets loot is important, making random spawns of corporate mementos that wander around Red causing SIC chatter would be a lot more effective than encouraging people to rummage through shit piles. I am not necessarily saying that is what needs to be implemented, I am just saying that it is a much more accessible and thematic reason for mixers to be fighting among one another.

I think if you really want conflict RP to the point of being cutthroat over the shitbergs you have to make the loot worth being cutthroat over. If two people walk into the room with pick axes and tell you to get lost or die over some low-value items, I'm probably just gonna get lost. If the stuff is potentially worth it, I may put up a fight or come back with a friend.

Another big reason more veteran characters might not get involved is nobody really wants to go after WCS employees and stop them from doing their job over the loot you get out of a shitberg. It may happen sometimes but if it's happening regularly then it creates a completely different problem.

That said, let's talk about lost cargo, or:

"It fell off the back of a truck…"[/b}

So, this exact excuse was something thieves would use when selling their goods door to door in my hometown. Hilarious, but also really hits the theme here. My suggestion here is to mirror some of those made above, but to also expand on it a little.

1-2 crates a week, with relatively pricy but not hugely expensive loot inside. all pulled from different pools, and each pool having its own crate design. Maybe it's a medical crate, full of drugs, medical equipment, antibiotics. Things you could sell to hospital staff or backdoor clinics. Maybe it's a mil-spec crate, full of ammo and an assortment of other mil-spec components. Maybe it's a food crate, with rare ingredients that people with a chef's island could pay a premium for. Car parts, designer clothing, electronics. The list goes on.

These crates will not just be a walk up and open them, no. You will need someone with the right skills to get past the biometric locks. A decker, or a techie. Give those specific jobs some extra work to be able to bypass these things, you now have to make the choice of splitting your loot with them, paying them, or just beating the crap out of them. This generates potential betrayal, and potential conflict.

Add onto that, the fact you're doing this against the clock, before another group gets to it, and has the means to open it up. Now, you have the potential for multiple people fighting over a crate that they may not even get much from. Will it be worth the cost of vatting for the chance of that one expensive item. Will the cost of the items inside be worth whatever you end up having to pay out to others. Could you get away with fucking everyone else here over, for the sake of a few kay?

Shitbergs were never themely. I feel like they were a joke suggestion that got way out of hand. Anyone digging through literal mountains of human poop for beanies and cigars isn't something that adds any sort of cyberpunk thematics to the game other than showing how far humanity has sank, but is it really doing that properly? Lost cargo, would both be far more themely, and far more on point for actual conflict surrounding these item generation earners.

I do think there is the fundamental issue that no matter how thematic or mechanically interesting an income source is, as long as it's tallying against the income cap it's only going to see as much engagement as it is easier or more accessible or quicker or less risky compared to other available options.

Like I can do two different very thematic and archetype appropriate methods of automated income generation, but I don't because they're a pain and unnecessarily risky compared to either 1) doing nothing if the extra money is unneeded, 2) doing some version of crates if it is.

1. You keep them clear because you're doing your fucking job. Word. Enjoy the random @lewts.

2. You keep them clear because others are doing bidniz that expects shitberg = zero. Word. Multiple level Mixing, Crime Style.

3. You don't clear them and @laugh at bakas jammed up by bergs. "Suck less. Plan moar bitches!"

Bergs = RP devices

The idea behind them wasn't for general players to go down and farm them for loot, which unfortunately y'all gamers do, the idea was to give WCS something extra to do. A team effort to clear the sewers and do their job.

This conversation came up because we've had players farm these things for months at a time to farm chyen. We decreased the loot, and now we're at a point where we still have people farming them, though admittedly not as much, so what I proposed was that we just remove the loot and decrease the health of the shitbergs by half.

That way WCS still has stuff to do, the mechanic is there to create RP for those of us who are still RP inclined, and we don't have people farming them for free loot and free chyenners.

One, I'm glad the focus is on ow we can increase conflict instead of just taking a thing away. Maybe taking it away is the better idea ling run, I don't know. But thank you for starting here

Second, I think that if you want to increase more competitive then make the gateway to competing more accessible. I' have spent weeks pondering on how to make the sewers into a conflict rich environment because of shitbergs. I think they CAN generate conflict but there were too many barriers and I moved on. What do I think will help?

Give people a way to compete down there that isn't reliant on expensive chrome. In a lot of cases, one specific chrome setup gives you a huge advantage. One set of chrome and one item can give you decent ability. Most other items give you a slightly less sever handicap.

His is because how the combat system works and interacts with hand held lighting. Combined with some environmental features of sewers which makes just dropping a light source in a room unfavorable. The only hands free non chrome means of dealing with darkness, last I knew, comes with targeting difficulties.

This means that more midbie and senior PCs can dominate in the sewers. A place that should, in my mind, be used in conjunction with immies to make money and fight/compete over resources is singularly unfavorable to these PCs in favor of established PCs.

Having a hard time expressing this but if we want to see more fighting/competing int he sewers over shitbergs, find ways that allow more characters to fight and compete in the sewers over shitbergs. Stop setting it up in a way that gives huge advantage to only those who already established.

Also, while I know the empower medics and reality simulators might disagree, lets step away from life sim here. Let's have fun cyberpunk action. You will have less buy in the more you push the idea that anyone who goes down there is going to or should be infected with the plague.

Finally. Greeters. I don't know what the state of things are now but I have frequently seen greeters and many other PCs constantly drive home the whole 'stay out' narrative. When PCs in positions of power say this, new players and sometimes even veteran players start to think and assume it's some kind of IC/OOC rule that shouldn't be pushed.

Just my random thoughts here!

I also like the idea of shitbergs having something more tangible for wicks to do and gives them a reason to be in and out of the sewers a lot. In the old days, it was always a little more shady to see them in and out of a hole, but now? Well, they're going to clean the sewers! They -should- be there, are there regularly, and what used to be a red flag of something shady going down is now just standard procedure, which opens the door to shadiness!

In short? I like it as is, let's keep it!