A discussion of biomod controllers
Why are we being punished to roleplay?

Biomods and the biomod controller offer no mechanical or coded advantage or effect, they are purely aesthetic. The biomod controller strictly does nothing but allow the player the privilege of roleplaying their already expensive biomods moving, while adding a tax of PDS weight on top of biomods that already carry their own separate weight. Every other piece of chrome in the game gives you some kind of benefit to make its cost in PDS/CPU worthwhile, the biomod controller does not. Biomods do not.

Why do these exist, punishing the player for roleplaying? Why is something built into my DNA, as biomods are, completely out of touch because there's no piece of metal in my skull allowing me to move it?

I'd like to suggest the removal of biomod controllers entirely, or at the very least, removing PDS weight behind biomods as you already have to sacrifice some to include the controller. We double dip in punishment allowing both.

I also understand the whole argument that your brain wasn't born with the functions of moving animal ears et cetera. But another logic could be said that neither were you born with said ears. Maybe let biomodifications have a new evolution. It's been a while since biomods were invented. Maybe a scientific development in their making wouldn't be too weird?

At the same time, it would be nice if the PDS attached to said biomods was removed as well, whether the controller is necessary or not. Agreed. The cost is already huge, for something that is so permanent to your body.

It isn't because curries or animal mods are disliked but because staff have said they don't want Sindome to turn into furry cyberpunk, and want to leave it as a niche/option but with drawbacks/costs as to not encourage it being so widespread.

Again, I don't think the controller is stopping furries from being furries. Removing it will likely not open the floodgates. If the concern is people with animal mods being all uwu and obnoxious then tell them to cut that shit out IC and stick to theme.

Or remove the option for such mods to exist.

The PDS is even more silly on the actual mods than the chrome. Maybe this whole topic would be better as an Idea honestly..

a) charisma as a stat

b) different tiers/vibes of vehicles even though sometimes they're functionally the same for the sake of aesthetics

c) tailoring materials having different costs

I believe the intention is that you can have your animal spliced DNA and the aesthetics of being a cat girl and move your tail and ears all you want, but it's going to come with an IC drawback in the sense that it'll limit you compared to those who don't opt in for that.

IC explanation could be that there's new developments in.. well.. the development of biomods and how it co-functions with the body.

Not sure that could be 'updated' for people who are already modded though. That might make less sense. I also still find it dumb that cybernetic detectors detect biomods..

See I can't agree with this point, like I can agree that it's something you'd not just understand instantly, but I think you'd sort of learn to control it with time, I don't believe it's more complex than plenty of the nanos that exist already that offer functional abilities that you can just use without the use of an additional implanted computer for the extra cost. It feels much more like something that you would just take some time to adjust to, since the ability to move parts of the body is something you already have as opposed to the previously mentioned nanos that introduce an entirely new function.

The processor is also be a gateway opportunity cost, but it has further limitations built into it. Biomods also have limitations put on them, but not by the controller.

I've seen both the processor and bio-controller make people rethink their decisions to get things because of the unexpected cost.

TL;DR - I dislike the biomod controller, but it's technically a mirror of the chrome side; it even has fewer restrictions as far as CPU load.

That makes less sense than your new appendages, which are not synthetic but rather spontaneously grown by targeted mutagens, just having the proper nerve connections for your brain to be able to control them. But if it's absolutely necessary, then the biomod controller and the processor units should be collapsed into a signal cyberware item, since they both serve the same functions of allowing you to control your new additions.

First, it's come to my attention that this 'we don't want everyone to be furries' thing might have been pushed in part by an old staff member who had some IRL phobic/hate issues. I feel comfortable speaking for the the current staff when I say that none of us have a problem with people playing animal splicers.

What has been voiced is that there's an interest in keeping the controller in play to encourage people to be creative and design mods of their own instead of defaulting to generic animal mods.

It's also been voiced that the controller is just the price people pay for designer goods. Mods were originally corporate only. My perception here is that the gear required, and the financial and PDS costs to have your cake and eat it too is partially in play to reflect the upper crust lifestyle. That doesn't go away just because this has become available to everyone. It's still a designer good and should be a sign of status that you as a mixer (those of you who are) can afford it - up front and back end costs considered.

Beyond the considerations above, the controller has other functions beside making your fluffy ears and tails move.

There are also voices that just think the controller should go away.

That said, I'm tossing around a pair of ideas to address this depending on which way the staff decides.

If consensus leans toward keeping it, then there are IC explanations to answer the concern for those that think it's off theme to have biomods that don't come with innate functionality - intercorp contracts. It's reasonable to say VS intentionally designs biomods to lack motor functionality because SK contracts with them for exclusive rights to give that functionality. In return, VS collects royalties on SK's biomod controller sales. VS stands to earn from SK sales and save on production cost by skipping over functionality inclusion in their own product.

If consensus leans toward removing it, then you might be saving on the cost of a piece of chrome, but I'll tell you I personally think it's still a designer good that should come with a cost. I'll be pushing to have the PDS load from biomod controllers added to the current PDS load of the biomod itself should we go this route.

I think too if they really are meant to stand out as a luxury good at the least they could give a CHA boost. Though realistically, mods can be made to uglify, I guess they're still culturally a sign of wealth.

I would prefer PDS cost was lower rather than higher, but my main issue lies in the controller I guess. The scanners detecting chrome when you only have mods is also a bit confusing, as that makes me wonder if it's only genetic.

But all in all, appreciate you all taking this into the agenda. Whatever outcome happens, I'm glad it's getting a discussion and have faith you'll do what is best for the game. I have my own biases, so not expecting to get my ideal world, lol.

Tying in a charisma boost to them does quell this distaste a bit, so they would at least do something other than be a @naked you have to pay a lot for. As much as I have far less dog in the fight in regards to biomods' PDS weight compared to the burning hatred I hold for biomod controllers on a principle level, let my solos be cat-eared AND effective, IMO.

That is getting too close to telling me (us as a player base) how to react to characters with mods. It would be forcing us into viewing them in a positive light and removing our agency to view them negatively.

To be clear, my only issue is with the boost to CHA. If the conversation were about giving people with cat ears a PCP boost. Or a long tail an AGL boost, I'd probably be all for it.

A statistical CHA boost is implying that the majority of 90+ million people in Withmore find that (biomods, mirrorshades, etc.) make the person with them more likeable and/or attractive.

It also implies that not finding someone with that magical whatever likeable and attractive, is holding an anti-social, anti-normative view of things.

Given the varied opinions across the player base about biomods, I don't see it as appropriate to imply that the majority of the ambient population looks at biomodded people as worth of emulation, envy, difference and all of the other soft benefits that are implicit in CHA boosts.

Does that clear things up?

I am NOT against stat boosts for biomods. Just don't make them CHA. CHA is too vague and subjective. Stick with something like AGL, or STR or … anything else other than LCK. :)

And Hek, none of that makes sense. Do you like everyone who is good looking IRL? I sure as hell don't. I don't like someone just because they're charismatic either, a lot of politicians are great at charming people, that doesn't mean I personally like them.

That wouldn't stop anyone from RPing that they don't like splicers, for whatever reason there might be to not like a splicer. There are characters with their CHA so high they're described as gorgeous and it's never stopped anyone from hating on them if they want to, which is fine as just because someone is good looking or charming, does not mean everyone is going to like them.

The staff debuff makes no sense to me because it'd be punishing characters who: pay the hefty fee to get biomods, go through the sometimes long wait, accept the hit to their chrome capacity, and have to deal with the (in my opinion) unnecessary biomod controller requirement.

Just as an aside, I played a splicer with a tail for years and never had a controller, because I had to decide between that giving me PDS or being more effective as a combat character. It was always silly to me that I would've needed a collar just to emote moving that tail.

Back to the staff debuff though, that's the kind of change where it staff did implement it, I think they should also be willing to refund all the Mixers who got biomods if they don't wanna deal with the sudden hit to their CHA.

First, this overall idea that I've presented assumes that biomod controllers are out, so the controller would not be required any longer for your biomods to have motor function.

Second, I've explained the why behind the charisma idea a couple of times now in different ways. To be as blunt as possible, the idea is that you (not any one of you specifically, but the 'illustrious you' i.e. splicers in general) are seen as pricks for walking around the mix with a ridiculously expensive set of visible biomods. You are openly flaunting your ridiculous wealth in a way that has no functional value to desperate people…in front of millions of those desperate people.

You are seen as an asshole, and I feel that warrants a negative charisma modifier in the mix because everyone around you sees you for the asshole you are. Conversely, flaunting your ridiculous wealth in topside sectors has the opposite effect. You're still a prick, but so is everyone else, so they love you for it, you god damned hero, you.

Yes, there are people in the mix who are pro-mods. But the majority are so poor they can't fathom ever having the flash to buy mods even if the -are- pro-mods. So the idea is that mix splicers are seen as less attractive for either being a big ol prick that flaunts their wealth while people die of hunger and sickness around them, for for buying into something that makes them more liked among corporate citizens, for the envy that pro-modders get when someone else has mods that they themself cannot afford, for the envy that someone else has that you can afford your freedom of expression at all when they can't, or a combination of those. This, to me, is themely.

And yes, I would push for these stat modifiers to go away if you cover up the mod.

I understand that we want our quality of life fun, but again, we're here to play a cyberpunk game, and I do honestly feel lately that there is typically little consideration of theme among players with regard to some of the change requests that pop up on the boards.

Biomods once represented an excellent opportunity to provide people with plot beats related to one of SD's core themes - haves and have-nots. It also represents an excellent opportunity to force players to choose between functionality and survival or vanity, which is an attribute of the core theme.

I'm not really interested in having cake and eating it too. I want to play difficult game with difficult choices that make me think about shit. I want all of you to have that experience as well because that's what cyberpunk is about. So as far as I'm concerned, any QoL improvements with this particular game feature should be balanced with some themely consequences. I don't want to see features changed in ways that take away the need for character's to choose what's really more important to them in the shithole of a city they're trapped in, in the question of fashion over function, or questions of what it means to be human or not.

This isn't a sim where we should want to go to live out our pvp fantasies while getting all of our IC QoL dreams answered to the detriment of theme.

Like, 'spliced petite mona'. Or..

Overall, his clothing is (whatever) and he is evidently spliced.

Style over substance is meant to represent how powerless people carve out something of their own within a system that wants to homogenize and commodify everything. A major part of cyberpunk is erasure of identity and self-expression due to consumerism. It's a world that's hostile to your body, and your choices.

When a character gets biomods, to me, it's not meant to just be a cosmetic quirk. It's meant to represent giving the middle finger to your oppressors - choosing to be yourself and express yourself in exchange for losing your edge in a system designed to optimize efficiency and human resources. It's the purest expression of cyberpunk defiance and resistance. You give up survivability in the name of self-expression. Take a solo who is biomodded versus a solo with the IC/OOC 'meta' of the standard typical solo chrome suite. The solo who's expressing themselves and refuses to conform to what society thinks is optimal is far more cyberpunk than the other.

The world punishes you for not optimizing, for being too loud, for being too weird, for being too you. It's a commentary on how the modern world does the same with marginalized people: too queer, too different, too weird etc. It's what the current modern society does to people who are trans, neurodivergent, disabled, or anyone really who steps outside the cisnormative, technocapitalist idea of 'useful flesh'.

That's what style over substance means - when the expression of self is more important to you than your edge, because it really might be the only thing you can own that's actually yours in a cyberpunk dystopia. Even if it gets you killed… especially if it gets you killed.

Not punishing stylistic choices would take away the theme of that for me. It costs everything to be yourself under capital, and that's what makes it worth something. If there's no cost to style, it becomes a fantasy. However on the other hand if there's only cost to style, then it becomes oppression.

This is where the theme clashes a little bit IMO. The game punishes people for expressing themselves with chy and PDS costs, as well as thematic groups such as NOMOD. That's fine. However, there isn't much of a benefit to off-set those drawbacks both mechanically and IC.

Biomodding is a commodity offered by a corporation which means your self-expression that's meant to be a fuck you to the system also kind of contributes to the system. That's fine: that's cyberpunk to the extreme. It makes the narrative even more tragic: even your desire to be yourself is something that the corps profit from.

The clash is when it's also advertised as something that corporate elites do. This is also much of an IRL thing: example tattoos and piercings. A poor person with ink and piercings may be seen as a criminal, or filthy, whereas a rich people will be seen as edgy, hipster and so on. Yet IMO it still leads to a clash where the punk is taken out of the biomod angle and is 99% of the time treated as a corpo thing.

If it were me, the solution would have to be layered:

a) differentiate between corp and mixer biomods. Corporate aesthetics/trends are different than the Mix. Maybe corp biomods favor clean, symmetrical, aesthetic mods while mixers prefer loud, grotesque, attention-seeking, shocking, animalistic mods. While corporate PCs and NPCs might see biomods as 'elite', anything that's non-conforming, shocking or against topside culture should be ICly seen as awkward and weird... whereas the Mix should embrace the individuality, no matter how fucked up it might be.

maybe even have it so that the biomods sold to the Mix are of second tier quality, or even have black market biomods so there's an IC justification for how Mixers are eating the crumbs of the top shelf mods that corpies have access to (without any mechanical repercussions, just that you have to go to CWH if you want clean/corporate looking mods whereas more gutter looking mods are done in CGH etc.)

b) give a rather significant CHA boost for biomodded people if their mods are visible and maybe even change the CHARM substat to not be how -likeable- you are, but how -noticeable- you are. Because biomodded people should be turning heads and have more presence regardless of wherever they are, because they are -different-.

c) allow some chrome to be opted in as biomods instead. this is probably going to have a lot of pushback, but if someone wants to have cat ears instead of an amplifier chip + cyberear, handwave it ICly as a partnership between SK and VS or something and let people have cyberears in the form of standardized biomod packages that give you ears. unnatural eyes? cat eyes? cybereye + lowlites. equalize the PDS costs so they're practically the same as if you had the chrome installed.

d) introduce narrative plots aside from NOMOD that prioritize modded characters in a POSITIVE light. have a biomodded punk subculture in the Mix: maybe have a club where splicers hang out in often, like IRL queer spaces, and where Mixers -accept- people who are outcasts, 'freaks', anarchists, whatever.

introduce a faction of anarchist biomodders that reject the corporate ideal and try to biomod their body to the extremes to push the limit of what can be done, just to shock topsiders and mess with corpies, or believe the body is a canvas much like IRL extreme bodymod fanatics. reverse the narrative where while NOMOD might call people freaks, this subculture adores it -- and being a 'normie' makes you a loser.

Anyway, I've written long already but those are my few suggestions and understanding of theme. Hopefully it helps the discussion.

It does not get treated like that's a common thing that might be the default in the mix. The reaction is closer to the one you'd if you claimed to eat babies for breakfast every morning.

Not sure about chrome biomods. Though it would be neat if you could customize cyberears for shit like metallic cat ears and stuff like that. Not wholly relevant here but meh.

That was an OOC discussion as well a few days ago on how NOMOD/anti-splicer movement is seen as super extremist and radicalized. I think it has to do more with it evoking natural feelings of being 'anti-freedom of choice' in players rather than the actual theme of 'fuck the corps they even own our bodies and images'.

I've seen attempts at setting the record straight by players and Staff alike this past week though on what NOMOD is, why it exists, and how it's ICly not that rare of an opinion which also isn't judging people on what they should do with their bodies but more is rebellion against classism.

There's something that needs to be addressed before I give an update on this topic.

It's extremely annoying when I'm trying to have constructive discussion on a thread, go out of my way to address phobic/hate issues that a past staff member expressed about the topic, assure players that the current staff are not hung up on that crap, and then still receive comment that attempts to insinuate I'm transphobic. It's more than annoying, really. It pisses me off because I can only imagine it's a comment made in bad faith given the assurance I put forth to address and allay those concerns from the start.

I mentioned more than once that I was talking about generally visible mods in public spaces.

"…the idea is that you (not any one of you specifically, but the 'illustrious you' i.e. splicers in general) are seen as pricks for walking around the mix with a ridiculously expensive set of visible biomods..."

People typically don't walk around naked in public. Genital mods are not generally visible in public. Genital mods are not what I was referring to. Genital mods would not be affected by the suggested buff/debuff in either direction and it was something I'd considered from the start.

Now, I understand that the above quote could have been more explicit about that. I mistakenly assumed my thoughts were clearly implied. That we'd all understand that genitals aren't usually on display in public and so I must not be referring to that. That's on me for not being clear enough, but it's a problem when the first notion someone has is defaulting to bad faith ad hominem attacks. And it isn't just me that gets it. I see it happen across the boards to others for various reasons from various people. It needs to stop. Ask for clarification before jumping to conclusions next time.

I'll post the outcome of staff discussion in a separate post.

As a heads up, I ditched the charisma idea before this meeting. I came around to the idea that it's not a great idea. Thank you for your feedback.

1. We agree the biomod controller should go. At the very least, we want it gone to remove any leftover thoughts that it's a relic from a biased past staff member's gender affirming hangups

2. We still think you need to make a choice between function over fashion with this. At present the PDS load from the chrome will be added to the biomod cultures.

3. The change will not be retroactive with current biomods. You will have to get new ones when the change comes.

I'm still trying to find out if there's a legit IC reason that biomods set off chrome scanners. If not, I'll seek to have that changed too so they don't.

That aside, I made my stance on PDS known early on with regards to this. It was never my intention to see the PDS load from the controller disappear. We might tweak it in the future, but for now it will be the same and it will likely never be as low as what mods currently are on their own.

This should result in lower CPU costs, turn functional mods as a production to a one-stop shop item, lower price for first time buyers, and shift things so splicers dont have to replace their tail wagging or ear twitching chrome when they die.

All of the mechanical extra steps and considerations and setbacks for chrome are gone except for the PDS.

It's unfortunate that one problem staffer bleated their hateful thoughts in public spaces at the same time this was being implemented, but that's all it was. That staffer painted a crappy public image of the chrome's OOC purpose that doesnt match its actual intended function.

We are simply trying to address that we're aware of that perception as we make this change. Again, it was never a punishment for gender affirming mods.

However, what I am happy to consider with this turn in the discussion is lowering the PDS cost of gender affirming mods specifically, so long as they are still human mods. My whole thing about the PDS cost here is that non-human mods are a further deviation from humanity than anything else you can do short of being Adam Smasher.

If you are splicing human DNA to change gender or adjust the attributes of your body within the human spectrum, then that should probably come with a lower PDS cost. You're still human, after all.

His constantly malfunctioning in-arm canon is always failing when he needs it most.

He could replace it with a newer model, but refuses even when his chums tell him he should. It's part of him and it's his style, and he chooses to saddle himself and his friends with unnecessary risk by refusing to replace it.

Without going into detail, it sucks due to IC reasons that seem to be counter to the idea of PDS. Does fixing a deformity or changing body type count as "less human”?

I thing certain functions are funky with the controller. Certain things that seem like they shouldn't need one do(changing parts that are already/could naturally be there), and ones that are far from standard human form don't seem to need one (do bioluminescent mods stop working without the controller somehow).

Again, I woudn't call it a sheer out mechanical disadvantage. In most cyberpunk tabletop games your character is no longer player controlled when you reach 0 humanity. Sindome is much, much more forgiving in terms of this.

^^ A fun idea would be GMS temporarily taking control of high/max ue characters with very severe PDS on rare occasion to start causing havoc and destruction but i'm not sure how people would feel about that (or if its been done before)

The thoughts/poses that your character experiences sets a general baseline on how you would begin to act with PDS, but its really up to you how you develop it from there. The roleplay is in your hands, not a bunch of systems. Nobody is considering forced emotes roleplay, it just sets the stage for you to do your own creative roleplaying.

I don't think it hampers player agency to the point it is detrimental to roleplay or forces you to act in a very certain way. It gives you a compass sure, but there are many things which do that in game. PDS woudn't always manifest in the same way it does to others.

There are other reasons why people avoid PDS, issues that should exist to a lesser extent according to the theme that might make it feel 'punishing' oocly to have it like veleth mentioned (ripper docs being hard to access/not as encouragd in terms of benefit from the ripper in my opinion when they should be abit more prevalent according to theme) and I think if we focused on those perhaps people woudn't be so afraid of the PDS cost for biomods and cosmetics or such.

i will say, though, that the PDS load from biomods themselves doesn't really make sense. it's not *cyberware*, it's modifying your genome. maybe have it add to DCD risk a little instead? seems like a more realistic approach